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-   -   Saving the "Rat" - Restoring a 69T (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/660560-saving-rat-restoring-69t.html)

kkinzli 03-06-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK911 (Post 6604404)
Yea, nice thread. Love the car and cant wait to see the finished product.

How do you plan on finishing the suspension bits?
A-arms, cross member, rear bananas, spring plates, etc?

I used POR-15 and am VERY happy with the results for a driver. This stuff is durable! I may use a flatter color next time, but hopefully it will get dirty soon.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331054900.jpg

Glad you like the thread and the Rat. Rats are generally underrated and are not appreciated by many and have a rather less than stellar reputation - one thinks of sewers, ghettos, crime and all sorts of filth. With that said the Rat thanks you for the adulation:) Thanks for the tip on the POR-15. I actually painted parts of the front suspension with PPG Epoxy primer today and then rattle canned over the primer in a flat black. We will see how long that holds up. The pictures of your suspension look great but it would be nice to see more dirt;)

kkinzli 03-06-2012 08:24 PM

Day 19: Today I worked on the front suspension cross member and some attachment hardware. Using a grinding wheel and my ghetto sand blaster I was able to get these parts to bare metal on Day 18. I let the parts soak with Ospho overnight and then painted with epoxy first thing in the morning

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331094020.jpg

After two coats of primer and plenty of drying time I rattle canned everything in a flat black

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331094092.jpg

I was also able to install the bushings. I got the cheap $20 ones from our host and will report on how they function. I made sure to spread plenty of high vacuum grease in the parts before fitting the bushing to avoid a squeaking Rat in the future. Getting the bushing to fit was no problem at all.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331094226.jpg

kkinzli 03-06-2012 08:29 PM

Day 19 Cont:

I was also able to clean up the pedal cluster area of the pan in hopes of getting the Rat mobile again. The reasoning here is that I would much rather grind metal and strip floor pans outside so my garage does not become a giant mess. It will also be much easier to strip the remaining paint on the body. Today I was also able to weld in a few patches in the fender attachment rails, epoxy paint the body underneath the smugglers box, and re-install the batteries.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331094531.jpg

kugelfischer 03-06-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinzli (Post 6594912)
What is your Ph.D. in?

Mine is in Cell Biology, Neurobiology & Anatomy

BTW, the car is looking great. You're making some really good progress. She's going to be a pleasure to get back out on the road after all the work. :cool:

kkinzli 03-07-2012 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naparsei (Post 6588129)
Russ is still around, as is Gary, and both are very involved in the Porsche community in NM.

If you ever see them could you tell them about this thread?

Cornpanzer 03-07-2012 05:30 AM

Great progress!
If you have some welding left, I would recommend you either turn up your amperage slightly or turn down the wire speed and you will improve the penetration and reduce your grinding time.

Looking forward to seeing this one done.

kkinzli 03-07-2012 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugelfischer (Post 6605645)
Mine is in Cell Biology, Neurobiology & Anatomy

BTW, the car is looking great. You're making some really good progress. She's going to be a pleasure to get back out on the road after all the work. :cool:

The Rat thanks you for the compliments! I am just chipping away a little bit everyday this week as I have spring break and hope to have ze Rat mobile again by Friday. The first drive is going to be fantastic except that the carbs will not run right for the first 50 miles or so. This happened last year when we came back from teaching in Vietnam during the summer. The Rat needs frequent exercise to stay on top of her game - kind of like a pro athlete;)
Are you a researcher of some with that degree or did you go on to med school?

naparsei 03-07-2012 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinzli (Post 6605595)
Hi Alex,

Thanks for the kind words and the encouragement. Falling down the "Rat hole", as you so aptly put it, has been a thrill. I am sure you will have a great time on your 71 and good luck on the retirement. What did you do as a career (past tense for hopeful retirement;)) with all of your degrees? If you ever need any help or have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM and I will be glad to assist if I can.

Cheers from not enchanted but still enchanting Bonita Springs FL
Kristoph

Wall Street. I know a lot about spreadsheets, but less about spanners. I am about to learn. I will also be going back to school (as a finance prof, and as a classics student).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinzli (Post 6606053)
If you ever see them could you tell them about this thread?

I see Russ fairly regularly, but Gary not as a much. I will along the info.

kkinzli 03-07-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornpanzer (Post 6606072)
Great progress!
If you have some welding left, I would recommend you either turn up your amperage slightly or turn down the wire speed and you will improve the penetration and reduce your grinding time.

Looking forward to seeing this one done.

Thanks for the tip! I will try that later today or tomorrow!

Cornpanzer 03-07-2012 09:11 AM

You will have to be careful turning the heat up because you can easily start burning through. But I have found that slowing the wire speed results in better penetration and less weld material stacking up (big ugly welds). You may need to do shorter runs, but the end result will be better.

Also, cleanliness is crucial. In looking at your photos, I might suggest cleaning the metal a bit more thoroughly and cleaning as you go along since as you weld you can contaminate surrounding areas. Just my two cents. SmileWavy

RWebb 03-07-2012 11:34 AM

I just hope all you guys are tenured BEFORE you start a project (!)

Daves911L 03-07-2012 05:57 PM

Kristoph! I just remembered I had a login for this forum. used it once a few years back and had forgotten about it. Good progress on the rat. Very pleased to see it. And envious. You work about 400 times faster than I do.

Very much enjoyed reading through the story. But there is one small correction required. The rat required less than two days to make the journey from NM to FLA. I calculated it as 40 hours door to door, not three days. And that included the overnight stop in Lafayette. I recall the mileage as about 2200? I put in oil once. Mostly ran 80-85 mph, but did hook up with some fancy shiny late model 99x turbo whatever (I'm sure the muffler on it cost more than the rat) for 10 miles or so just east of Mobile, running 115-120. Until that last tank of gas two hours north of you, which I suspect was part diesel, the rat ran like a friggin' locomotive. A beautifully engineered German locomotive that is. Just like a good old 911 should be! So give the old girl credit!

Cornpanzer offers good advice on the welding. Don't worry about a bead. Small bursts of 2 or 3 seconds, nomore, with pauses of 1-2 seconds in between, and overlapping make nice welds with a mig. Use the highest amperage setting you can without blowing a hole in 3 seconds. Start your next weld on your previous still cooling one, and let it melt into the fresh metal. Like shampooing, lather, rinse, repeat. And pay attention to lighting and helmet. You cannot weld what you can't see. Use a good quality auto-darkening helmet (no HF here please!), and have a portable halogen floodlight focused on the area. Reading glasses under the helmet help me a lot too, but your eyes are much younger.

Cut some 20 ga. into strips 3 or 4 inches wide, then butt weld it all back together. Great practice, and you'll learn fast what works, what doesn't, heat settings and wire speed. easier to figure this out welding flat on scrap than vertically on your battery box.

Noticed the comment about POR15. Snake oil in my opinion. It won't stop rust, just slows it down a bit. And why the hell would anyone want to paint over rust? The floors in my '68 had been treated with POR 15 by the previous owner. They slowly turned to red dust encapsulated by two (admittedly tough) sheets of flexible plastic.

Now that I've figured out how to post here, I think I'll send a picture of my project so these 911 guys can see what a real Porsche is!

Take care,
DG

kkinzli 03-07-2012 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornpanzer (Post 6606507)
You will have to be careful turning the heat up because you can easily start burning through. But I have found that slowing the wire speed results in better penetration and less weld material stacking up (big ugly welds). You may need to do shorter runs, but the end result will be better.

Also, cleanliness is crucial. In looking at your photos, I might suggest cleaning the metal a bit more thoroughly and cleaning as you go along since as you weld you can contaminate surrounding areas. Just my two cents. SmileWavy

Thanks for the additional tips. I will make sure to clean things up more thouroghly the next time I get at welding, which hopefully will be tomorrow. I found that turning down the wire speed made a huge difference and I was able to make much thinner welds with less material to grind off. I did try to turn up the juice a little bit but ended up blowing through the old metal so I left that at the suggested setting. This is a huge learning process for me and I appreciate all of the advice:D Maybe by the end of this project I will be able to weld;)

kkinzli 03-07-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naparsei (Post 6606203)
Wall Street. I know a lot about spreadsheets, but less about spanners. I am about to learn. I will also be going back to school (as a finance prof, and as a classics student).



I see Russ fairly regularly, but Gary not as a much. I will along the info.

I know too much about spreadsheets being an engineer :( I only know a little about spanners. Hopefully the completion of this project will see me pass my Porsche Master trials. Maybe one day I can sit on the Porsche Restoration Council as Obi Wan does;) Are you going to be teaching at UNM? Thanks for forwarding the info. I think it might help clear up the history of the Rat:)

kkinzli 03-07-2012 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6606886)
I just hope all you guys are tenured BEFORE you start a project (!)

Nope! Not even close:eek: My university does not have tenure because tenure allows old professors to do nothing for years and years after working hard for the first little bit;). FGCU was started in 1997 and instead of tenure has three year contracts.

RWebb 03-07-2012 08:11 PM

At the risk of diverting away from the car, I'll give you my (current) perspective: Professors become old and worn out working so hard to get tenure that by the time they get it they are permanently crippled (not to mention divorced and ruining their kids lives...). When I was young (before VisiCalc), I used to make fun of the old "deadwood" floating around the dept. like the other young people did. That is biology (whole organism physiology), so other fields may be different.

Now, let me find a car pic to post...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331179843.jpg


heat shield cloth from Jerry Woods on a FG bumper

kkinzli 03-08-2012 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves911L (Post 6607695)
Kristoph! I just remembered I had a login for this forum. used it once a few years back and had forgotten about it. Good progress on the rat. Very pleased to see it. And envious. You work about 400 times faster than I do.

Very much enjoyed reading through the story. But there is one small correction required. The rat required less than two days to make the journey from NM to FLA. I calculated it as 40 hours door to door, not three days. And that included the overnight stop in Lafayette. I recall the mileage as about 2200? I put in oil once. Mostly ran 80-85 mph, but did hook up with some fancy shiny late model 99x turbo whatever (I'm sure the muffler on it cost more than the rat) for 10 miles or so just east of Mobile, running 115-120. Until that last tank of gas two hours north of you, which I suspect was part diesel, the rat ran like a friggin' locomotive. A beautifully engineered German locomotive that is. Just like a good old 911 should be! So give the old girl credit!

Cornpanzer offers good advice on the welding. Don't worry about a bead. Small bursts of 2 or 3 seconds, nomore, with pauses of 1-2 seconds in between, and overlapping make nice welds with a mig. Use the highest amperage setting you can without blowing a hole in 3 seconds. Start your next weld on your previous still cooling one, and let it melt into the fresh metal. Like shampooing, lather, rinse, repeat. And pay attention to lighting and helmet. You cannot weld what you can't see. Use a good quality auto-darkening helmet (no HF here please!), and have a portable halogen floodlight focused on the area. Reading glasses under the helmet help me a lot too, but your eyes are much younger.

Cut some 20 ga. into strips 3 or 4 inches wide, then butt weld it all back together. Great practice, and you'll learn fast what works, what doesn't, heat settings and wire speed. easier to figure this out welding flat on scrap than vertically on your battery box.

Noticed the comment about POR15. Snake oil in my opinion. It won't stop rust, just slows it down a bit. And why the hell would anyone want to paint over rust? The floors in my '68 had been treated with POR 15 by the previous owner. They slowly turned to red dust encapsulated by two (admittedly tough) sheets of flexible plastic.

Now that I've figured out how to post here, I think I'll send a picture of my project so these 911 guys can see what a real Porsche is!

Take care,
DG


Hello Obi Wan!!

The reason I work 400 times faster than you is that your welds and other work are 400 times better:) I am really glad that you found this thread as you are a huge part of the story. Thanks for the correction about the trip down to FLA. Now that you mention the trip I also remember how badly everything smelled of gas and how your sleeping bag was wet with gas (from a bad fuel level sender gasket) and I had to put it outside when you got here. Lucky that nothing in the trunk sparked during the trip. The Rat had been running like the well engineered German locomotive you mention until I tore her apart. After driving the Rat to work consistently, driving the Black Knight seems soulless and boring and I want the Rat back ASAP!

Thanks for the advice about welding. I will make sure to put a spotlight on the area (I think this would have helped a lot) and clean everything up during the process like Cornpanzer said. I have been using Peter's welder and auto darkening helmet both of which are made by Eastwood and seem to be pretty good quality. Since you mention 20 ga steel for practicing I think I may have discovered a problem with my previous metal selection. I have been using 16 ga steel and one of my main issues welding has been that the metal from the car blows through before I can get the weld to take on the new metal. Leave it to the PhD in engineering to do something dumb like that:rolleyes:. While we are on steel gage; what gage should I use to patch holes in the fender attachment rails, floor pans, and rockers? I practiced on strips for about 4 hours with Peter and thought I was doing pretty well (using 16 ga) but to get things to work on the car I ended up going with a wire speed that was too high. I am pretty sure changing to the correct gage and following your advice about short bursts will fix most of my problems.

I agree with yoiu about the POR-15. I did a ton of research on this site about it before deciding to go with the PPG two stage. From my research I found that POR-15 will not stick well to clean shiny metal and will do what you mentioned if you paint it over rust. Therefore, everything on the Rat goes down to clean shiny metal and then gets epoxy asap to prevent surface rust, which occurs quickly 3 miles from the gulf.

Thanks again for all of your help with my adventure down the Rat Hole. Actually thanks for the giant push over the edge of the Rat Hole:cool::D

Dear Obi Wan is this the "Real Porsche" you speak of? I didn't know you were hiding one of these http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331210236.jpg

Maybe this is your "Real Porsche" that is being inspected by certain evil leaders and officials

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331210303.jpg

or could you be talking about this?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331210368.jpg

None of the above are very fast so I am sure you must be talking about your most recent secret aquisition ;) I am sure your wonderful wife is furious with you for getting another P- car (not sure this counts though)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331210538.jpg

kkinzli 03-08-2012 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6608034)
At the risk of diverting away from the car, I'll give you my (current) perspective: Professors become old and worn out working so hard to get tenure that by the time they get it they are permanently crippled (not to mention divorced and ruining their kids lives...). When I was young (before VisiCalc), I used to make fun of the old "deadwood" floating around the dept. like the other young people did. That is biology (whole organism physiology), so other fields may be different.

Now, let me find a car pic to post...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331179843.jpg


heat shield cloth from Jerry Woods on a FG bumper

In terms of working for a university I think things are much the same across many fields. For years the bar has continually been raised and in engineering at an R1 university you are expected to have about 20 publications for tenure. My advisor who had been teaching for 20 years had 7 publications just to give you an idea. I think a huge reason for this is pressure from the outside to conduct research and get the most out of tax money. I personally don't think that being a professor is crippling in any way and I certainly hope it does not lead to divorce and ruined children in my case. I think the flexibility of the job will allow me to be a better father and husband as I can often work from home and shift my schedule around. Since my wife also teaches we are able to take great trips together in the summer, which will be fantastic with kids. One of the main reasons for doing the Rat project now is to have it done before there are little munchkins running around;)

kkinzli 03-08-2012 04:57 AM

Day 20: Painting suspension attachment points and area above steering rack

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331211361.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331211380.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331211408.jpg

kkinzli 03-08-2012 05:00 AM

Day 20 cont: Doors and hood back from the body shop in epoxy primer:cool: They did a great job fixing the rust on the hood and horrible dents in the passenger door. The hood is currently hiding in the master bedroom closet behind my shirts and pants for work. Don't know how the wife puts up with me?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331211485.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331211503.jpg


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