A trick to fitting RS heater bypass to 3.6 conversion?

[DW SD]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Looks like Doug beat me to it - here's a pic of my SCAT tubing heat tube. . .

Doug - do you get enough air flow through yours? Did you add later footwell blowers?

Hey Tom,
didn't see your questions weeks ago. I get sufficient air flow to defrost the front windshield. Still, I don't think my car sees below 55 degrees ambient. If it is cold, I drive another car.

I route my heater line upfront right to the driver's front window defrost vent. I only run one side. At speed, I feel a fair amount of warm air there when I've got the rear control port fully closed.

Doug

[BarryJB]

Originally Posted by NoEardGoat

Success Pics???

Forgive me I've been a little distracted driving this whole new beastie around after it being off road 6 months for all the nasty good work...

Forthcoming, assuming the creek don't rise, will post and tell all tomorrow (Tue)

[DW SD]

Barry,
I'd like to check it out up close. We should meet up one day.

Doug in Encinitas

[BarryJB]

Well OK it's Sunday now, just got all the pics and stuff so here goes, and answers to Tom & yes Doug, meet for coffee or something and compare the wee beasties?

Re heat, mine's an '85 (manual heat) so already had the footwell blowers (a small stash has let me cycle them out for TLC until they completely burn up). Silicone Intake Systems provided silicone reducers, SS couplers & clamps to get 2-1/2in SCEET hose (Aircraft Spruce) from the H/Es to the heater valves.

The result, chilly SoCal nights (50's) last week - PLENTY of heat, warm feet with windows down.

I had all three types of fan duct and it looks as though the later 993 type would pass more air (though it doesn't fit the RS bypass tube) as it has a larger plenum - see pics below.




So maybe without footwell blowers, adapting the 993 part or using a SCAT/SCEET adapter duct might work a bit better than either 964 part.

So back to bypass tube, it was clear there was less clearance than some other conversions, engine mount geometry maybe? I don't know, but get the CF bypass tube in with this car:

1. Cut about 1/2 inch off the lower end as it was too long to insert fully into the receiver. But now it didn't reach the air duct, so…
2. Cut it in two a couple of inches above the distributor vent line port, centered on the roundest section.
3. Added a 3-in (nominal size) rubber & SS pipe coupler sold for ABS pipe, $6 at HD. At first I used the SS clamp on top but after playing with all this stuff a bit decided it was unnecessary, and used only the rubber sleeve.
4. Cut out two oval openings using hole saws and files, one to clear left fuel rail, the other to clear the left rear engine-mount gusset.



5. Taped some reinforced rubber material over the two holes with 3 mil x 1-1/4in harness tape (stuff is used for wrapping truck and vehicle wiring looms - conforms well, modestly heat resistant, and the glue/tape doesn't smear/slide) - but this is while effective not going to be the permanent solution (three years later…)



6. While the plastic cover over the relays and fuses is shown IN, and tube can be inserted with cover there, cover has to be removed to provide clearance for rotating the tube into place. With no lower gasket in place, inserted tube in position shown in pic; rotating CCW and back put it into position and removing several times to adjust the rubber sleeve fitment for length and angle re the air duct, then removed it again. Without lube, it grips the tube tightly and is not easy to relocate.



7. Positioned the loosened lower clamp as shown in pic, with the end lifted over the finger on the receiver as shown in pic, and placed the nut driver with flex drive as show.



8. Liberally sprayed the rubber lower gasket, receiver and bypass tube end with RZ-50 dry-film lube.



9. Inserted gasket in receiver, then started the tube in position shown above (with cover removed as in 6 above), and with only minor wiggling during insertion & rotation (innuendo fodder) CCW and back into position, it seated perfectly, including the lower rubber gasket, and easily fitted squarely & firmly into the air duct.
10. Tightened the lower clamp with the pre-positioned nut driver (removed tool).
11. Inserted distributor vent nipple & hose.



So now clearance on both sides, doesn't rub on fuel rail or engine mount gusset. Even with temp. tape job, not too ugly...



12 Job done! (Apos to Wheeler Dealers).



Now just four jobs left - increase cooling capacity (Palomar run confirmed need) with driver side active cooler, a bit more work on the muffler system (goal, retain stock cat with livable volume - it's close), add an A/C compressor, and maybe replace the 8-year-old CV joints (1st casualty of extra torque, methinks!). Meanwhile, just driving this whole new animal...

Barry

[Tom '74 911]

Barry -

Thanks for the write-up & pics. While I certainly cut up my CF tube to fit around the motor mount, I never thought of slicing it completely in half to help make it fit w/the angles etc... Maybe I'll give that a try.

Thanks again for taking the time,
Tom

[BarryJB]

Tom, here's the exact part I used, Home Depot, Fernco 3in neoprene shielded coupling, Model # P3000-33, Store SKU # 482152. It's a shiny, clean part (see my photo) and the SS sleeve part fits fine too, if you want to use it, or just the hose clamps, they are 100% SS type. At HD it's $8, not $6, my bad. Just rechecked size, my Maxspeed CF tube ($180, our host had no OEM or CF tubes at the time) is OD ≈3.75 in the roundest portion, and the 3-in coupler fits very well - the 4-incher is too big (two trips on that one). Intercooler Pipe Fabrication - Silicone Intake Systems Auto Parts sell all manner of silicone parts for similar $ but tough to know which sizes if any would stretch or squash to fit well without trying.
Good luck!

[MarkRobinson]

I have one of these fitted 964 RS Carbon ducts for sale, make me an offer. Came off the car I just dismantled.

Mark

[pdtweeks]

I just installed one of these as well...'94 3.6 into an '83SC.....also used the offset engine mount adapters.
I inserted lower end fully into the connector tube, and then worked the upper end into the rubber boot with a tool similar to what Bill posted earlier. Snug fit, looks like it'll work
[IMG][/IMG]

[arrivederci]

Does anyone know where to get the offset engine mount adapters pictured?

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by arrivederci

Does anyone know where to get the offset engine mount adapters pictured?

You either need to brush up on your welding and fabrication skills, or find a friend or a professional who is capable. Show him the pictures from this thread and tell him you want a copy!
Somewhere in this forum is a thread with fabrication drawings with measurements, but I don't know where. If I find it, I'll let you know. As far as I know, no one builds them for sale. Most folks just bend the mount to fit. (but it's real ugly and unprofessional looking)
Here's some pics of mine before I painted it black. I was lucky enough to buy it from a Pelican on the for sale forum. By the way, I have an extra stock mount available if you need one to work over!

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by arrivederci

Does anyone know where to get the offset engine mount adapters pictured?

I found the thread with the discussion and drawings for modifying the engine mount bar.
It's a very long thread, but has a lot of good discussions on the trials and tribulations of
doing a 3.6 transplant. The mount discussion is on the first page of the thread.

Let the 3.6 fun begin

[pdtweeks]

here's the sketch that I used.....thanks to OP for the detail
[IMG][/IMG]

[arrivederci]

Looks like I'll have to weld and re-powder coat. I have the 3.6L mount that has been bent. But I was planning on using the early engine mount so I've already mounted new studs, etc (don't remember exactly why at this point, but it really made sense at the time). So I have already partially modified the early mount (welded on a coil mount, added gussets to the ends, and powder coated). I was planning to make some relief cuts in it, bend it, and re-weld, but I like this solution better. It would be even better if I could buy something pre-made, but oh well. Thanks!

[wildcat077]

Did you use the 3.6 tin or did you modify a set of 3.2 tin ?

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by arrivederci

Looks like I'll have to weld and re-powder coat. I have the 3.6L mount that has been bent. But I was planning on using the early engine mount so I've already mounted new studs, etc (don't remember exactly why at this point, but it really made sense at the time). So I have already partially modified the early mount (welded on a coil mount, added gussets to the ends, and powder coated). I was planning to make some relief cuts in it, bend it, and re-weld, but I like this solution better. It would be even better if I could buy something pre-made, but oh well. Thanks!

The early engine console and cross bar are a great solution, however you'll then need the
single crankshaft pulley/belt alternator drive system. Makes everything look great, however if you want to retain A/C you'll have to stick with a modified 964/993 crossbar and mount console.

I believe with the early bar/console solution you don't have to bend the crossbar.
the extended 3.6 console is the reason you need to bend the 3.6 cross bar.

[arrivederci]

Originally Posted by wildcat077

Did you use the 3.6 tin or did you modify a set of 3.2 tin ?

Modified the 3.6 tins...

[arrivederci]

Originally Posted by uwanna

The early engine console and cross bar are a great solution, however you'll then need the
single crankshaft pulley/belt alternator drive system. Makes everything look great, however if you want to retain A/C you'll have to stick with a modified 964/993 crossbar and mount console.

I believe with the early bar/console solution you don't have to bend the crossbar.
the extended 3.6 console is the reason you need to bend the 3.6 cross bar.

Yea, I did the single pulley/belt conversion already too. When trial fitting it, it was apparent that the bar needs to be bent a little, probably an inch. I could try to flex it into place but boy was it tough.

[Joe Bob]

[QUOTE=BarryJB;6744649]Well, at the expense of looking pretty stupid...




The part of the pipe below the ridge (that mates into the lower receiver) on the OEM part [QUOTE]


Barry, do you still have the stock pipe or part number?

[uwanna]

[QUOTE=Joe Bob;9194371][QUOTE=BarryJB;6744649]Well, at the expense of looking pretty stupid...




The part of the pipe below the ridge (that mates into the lower receiver) on the OEM part

Barry, do you still have the stock pipe or part number?

Hey Mike,
Here's the latest version of the stock pipe, note the SS insert in bottom end.
EDIT:Mike, Just saw your other thread looking for "stock" pipe to blower, I misunderstood what you wanted. My bad. LOL
Porsche 964 993 Euro RS Engine Hot Air Elbow Tube Clubsport Cup Light Genuine | eBay

GENUINE NEW PARTS

993 211 941 00 | Engine Hot Air Manifold Elbow - Euro RS 964 / 993 Heater Blower Auxiliary Motor Bypass - Engine shroud to exhaust heat exchanger manifold - GENUINE PORSCHE - List: $280.13

+ Replaces PN: 993 211 341 41
+ Replaces additional blower assembly found on the left side of engine. Reduces 8.50+ Lbs (3.85+ Kg) of weight from the engine with diminished heat flow.
+ 993 Vario-Ram Models Require PN: 964 106 403 02 - Engine Air Duct for Engine Cooling.

Applications:
(1989-1998) PORSCHE 964* / 993* Carrera 2 Euro RS Clubsport / Cup Lightweight 3.6L - 3.8L NA - All Models: Engine Codes (M64.01/02/03/05/06/07/08/20/21/22/23/24/60)
* (Exception) NOT INTENDED TO FIT: 964 / 993 Turbo (M30.69 / M64.50/60) / (1994-1995) 993 and Turbo Models can fit with some modification.
* (1996-1998) 993 Vario-Ram Models Require PN: 964 106 403 02 - Engine Air Duct for Engine Cooling.

Notes:
+ This part includes a stainless steel tube band at the base which improves part integrity.
+ The factory part design has ideal fitment, maintains an original factory appearance and will not yellow or fracture overtime like some composite reproductions available.
+ Please be advised the heating capacity in the cockpit is progressively reduced with lower engine RPM so this may not be ideal for extreme weather climates.
+ Some models also require electrical updates to the relay system to remain fault free.