2.7 MFI engine Spec - Comments?

[MarkMW]

I have recently purchased a heavily modified 1969 911 which has been used as a track car for many years.
It needs a bit of love and attention - been dry stored for five years - but basically its all there.
There seem to be a lot of very well informed people on this BB and I'd be interested in any comments on this particular spec - and also some answers to a few questions.
Engine Spec (supplied in handwritten note book)

2.7S USA Carrera Spec 7R Crankcase
Cams 2.7S (Set at TDC Overlap 0.025")
Distributor/Vacuum Fixed
MFI (Origin 911E) Butterflies 36mm
Pump origin 2.0 911E retarded 3 teeth (27degrees) to give following timing -Inlet opens 7 ATDC , Inlet closes 61 ABDC
Exhaust Headers RSR 38mm bore - no heat exchangers.

My questions are-
What sort of power should this set up give?
Will power delivery be driveable for the street?
What ignition settings should I be using - i.e. plug type, gap, points gap,dwell.?

Also what would you guys suggest as priorities for maintenance after 5 year storage.
Mine are air oil and fuel filter changes, plug change, timing.
currently the engine starts fine, idles, but does not want to rev over 2500 rpm - coughs, splutters then dies - though to be honest I haven't let it run long enough to let it warm up properly yet.
Any comments/advice are very welcome

Thanks

[jluetjen]

Since you are using 2.7S cams (which I assume means from a CIS engine), your peak HP should be at about 5800 RPM. If your car was running the stock heads (35 mm intake and exhaust ports) and CIS, it would be putting out about 175 HP at that engine speed using the headers. If the MFI was set up correctly, you might get an extra 10 HP from that over the CIS. If the pump was taken from a 2.0 (E?), it would have needed to be rebuilt to accomodate the additional air that a 2.7 draws. If it was not, I doubt that the engine will run too well, even if the MFI timing was retarded.

What sort of power should this set up give? >>> I'm guessing about 185 HP.

Will power delivery be driveable for the street? >>> If the MFI has been set up correctly, it should have excellent throttle response while still having the comparatively torquey pull of the mid-year S's.

If you have to open up the motor for some reason, you might want to consider some higher compression pistons and 70-73 E cams which will move the Peak HP engine speed up to 6200 RPM. Assuming that the MFI is set up correctly (or you convert to carbs), this should get you easily over 200 HP. To get more then that will require opening up the ports on the head to 36 or 38 mm. After you have done this you can move up to MFI-S cams like the 2.7 RS or even something as wild as a 906 or GE80 cam. At that point the motor would be more of a track only motor since the peak torque and peak HP numbers would have moved up the rev range.

As far as the tune-up specs, I'll have to leave to someone who has worked on a similar engine.

[GIBSON]

Mark, I just have one question, If I'm reading your post correctly, you indicated that the pump used for this 2.7 conversion is from a 2.0E. If this is correct, I know of no way to convert this pump's space cam to provide the appropriate pump characteristics for a 2.7L engine. The only pumps which can be converted to utilize the 2.7 space cam are the 2.4 pumps. So, I'm wondering if your pump can really provide the fuel necessary to meet the needs of a 2.7L engine.
Maybe I'm missing something in the description you gave but it sounds like the pump may be the limiting factor in your engines horsepower potential.

[MarkMW]

Bruce
Unfortunately , I do not have any more information on the conversion other than the handwritten book which came with the car - which does say 2.0 911E.
Is there any way of identifying the pump externally? Serial numbers or modifications possibly?
Thanks

[jluetjen]

Mark;
If the front of the pump (back of the car) has two solenoids on it (The top one is the start enrichment solenoid and the bottom one is the overrun shot-off solenoid,) then it is a 2.0 pump. If it only has the bottom solenoid, then it is a 2.2 or later pump. I have the following pump identification numbers:

2.0 S: 0408-126-001 or -005
2.0 E: 0408-126-002 or -006

2.2 S: 0408-126-009
2.2 E: 0408-126-010

(The 2.4 MFI systems also had Thermostatically controlled pre-heat devices and intake manifolds of synthetic material)
2.4 S: 0408-126-013 (Europe) or 021 (USA)
2.4 E: 0408-126-014
2.4 T(E): 0408-126-015

(The 2.7 RS systms had throttle valve casings with enlarged bypass bores for idling air. They are recongnizable by the solex part number on the front surface)
2.7 RS: 0408-126-019

Also; the date of manufacture by the code number on the identification plate of the injection pump.

example: 807 = 196>>8<< month 7.

Note: The monthly code numbers change after every 10 years so the years 1960-1969 use months 1-12 and 1970-1079 use months 21-32.

[MarkMW]

John,
Thanks very much for that. I'll check it out tonight and let you know what I find.

[MarkMW]

I checked it out last night and the number shows it is a 2 litre pump i.e.006, but it only has the shut off solenoid fitted. Above this is a blanking plate (non original) and above that the large pipe from the headers which I assume is some type of warm up regulator/thermostat.
Is it not possible that this pump has been internally modified, and if not what would be the effect on the engine? Sorry to sound so ignorant but this is my first foray into 911 ownership, and I am learning all the time.
Incidentally I do have evidence that the car was raced in this configuration for several years, so I guess it must run OK - maybe he just didn't win much!

[jluetjen]

Gibson; Can you elaborate further on your comment about 2.0 and 2.2 MFI pumps not being able to be upgraded to 2.7's? What's the gating issue?

I'll be honest - I can't find anything that says one way or the other nor have I ever heard anything about this constraint in the past. The documentation that I have or have seen suggests that it should be possible given a change in the space cam and maybe the pistons in the pump.

Too bad the start solenoid is gone, it makes a handy cold start feature.

What would be the affect of running a unmodified 2.0 pump in a 2.7? The engine would generally be getting 75% of fuel that it needs across the board. If it even ran, it would most likely be so lean that it would burn the pistons. If by chance you could move the rack enough to compensate using the part throttle adjustment, you would still have places on the "map" where the amount of fuel would be wrong, such as under wide open throttle.

[GIBSON]

I'll do some checking today on the reasons for the space-cam issue. I know that the 2.7 liter space cam is different and designed to meet the needs of the engine. I suspect the 2.4L pumps had internal modifications to allow for their increased fuel needs and that the 2.7L engine was designed to use the same pump with a modified space cam. I'll post what I find from the
experts. I do remember that 2.4Liter pumps, whether they are T,E or S pumps have more intrinsic value used as they are
the ones that can be modified to be used in 2.7 engines.
It is possible that earlier pumps could be modified to be used but I'm not sure if they would provide the fuel the 2.7 needs to perform to it's maximum.

[GIBSON]

I just checked with Gus at Pacific Fuel Injection, I guess the most accurate way to say what we're discussing is this: If you are building a 2.7RS motor, i.e. a motor with the S cam, you must use the 2.4 pump as it is the only pump which will physically allow the
2.7 space cam to fit. His stipulation was that you are using the
S cam. Any 2.4 pump will work, T,E or S.
So, hope that helps.