Performance Tuning - The Myth -

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Big Jon Jacobs

Having a great time with this one boys!

You know, I really have nothing against Lauren, but I do think he does himself a disservice by starting these threads.

Wayne makes an excellent point when he suggests that chipping a car may lead to a need for higher octane fuel. However, if you are already using premium, and have unrestricted access to it, then a chip and exhaust upgrade would be the easy way to a little more of what Dr Porsche intended form these cars.

Has anyone EVER posted a thread about how they damaged their 911 with a SW chip ? EVER ? LOTS of testimonials and real world results.

One has to wonder about the repeated and unending attacks on a credible chip tuner with lots of happy customers. What is it about ? BTW, Steve isn't the only guy to tune 911 chip. He is just the best known and longest standing.

[Lorenfb]

And what is happening here?

Misfire at Track

[ejp]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

And what is happening here?

Misfire at Track

I suspect that the recent increase in activity among Somali pirates may also be due to the Steve Wong chips.

[brads911sc]

It would be virtually impossible to program every possible condition into the chip. I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the possibility that the chip contributed to this. too many unknown variables.

Originally Posted by ejp

I suspect that the recent increase in activity among Somali pirates may also be due to the Steve Wong chips.

[ejp]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

It would be virtually impossible to program every possible condition into the chip. I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the possibility that the chip contributed to this. too many unknown variables.

It could be the chip (and I am by no means an expert) - I wouldn't entirely rule it out just yet. It's just so clear that someone has an axe to grind - why would someone with such an agenda be a credible source of information? Reading that other thread, there are a few other more plausible and easy to rule out places to check first.

I've been researching chips for a while, and Loren's initial point (10 years ago) is reasonable and seemed to merit some consideration. At this point, however, the new dialog has done nothing to add new information beyond FUD (fear, uncertainy, doubt).

Anyway, I'm kicking myself for being dragged into this troll. With apologies, I will politely remove myself from the conversation.

[ratpiper71T]

Don't have any relation business or other wise with either implied party in this discussion, however, following some type of controlled method of observation/experimentation of the so called performance chips has little relevance here.
The OP made his own tests and his own modifications and his own observations of his own methods---- and said, 'this doesn't do anything- clearly BS'------
How is this a valid observation of another's product when another's product wasn't even used?

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

Given the number of incomprehensible posts, many need to re-read the initial post .....

Just as predicted, typical response of a weasel. Looks like someone can't walk the talk is trying to crawl back into his hole. Absolute coward!

[Lorenfb]

"It would be virtually impossible to program every possible condition into the chip. I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the possibility that the chip contributed to this. too many unknown variables."

Exactly! And that's the whole Mickey Mouse thing about 'performance' tuning!

And it appears that an engine (3.2) was damaged/destroyed in Orange County in the last few
months during a 'tuning' session. Could this be related to too much 'pushed' timing
for that extra HP also? Actually, information from the session was that the engine was
advanced too much.

"Just as predicted, typical response of a weasel. Looks like someone can't walk the talk is trying to crawl back into his hole. Absolute coward!"

Speaks to one's character!

[RWebb]

don't let him make you mad

[LJ851]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

And it appears that an engine (3.2) was damaged/destroyed in Orange County in the last few
months during a 'tuning' section. Could this be related to too much 'pushed' timing
for that extra HP also?

It could be related to many, many things. This is a statement of the unknown.

[Steve W]

Weaseling again? So now you're implying an engine was destroyed during one of my tuning sessions? Never happened so cut the BS while you're ahead.

So why don't you pony up and show us all what you claim? Or afraid of everyone seeing your true character?

[brads911sc]

At the end of the day. Both Loren and Steve are right. There are too many factors involved in how a car engine performs. There is more to performance than Fuel and Timing maps. Hell, Altitude, Humidity, Fuel Quality, Ambient Temps, Engine Temps, Load extremes, can impact this stuff. Can Loren say that a chip caused a engine to blow with 100% certainity. No. Can Steve say that his chips consider all factors 100% and that they would NEVER contribute to a engine blowing? No. Come on guys. This is ridiculous on both sides.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Come on guys. This is ridiculous on both sides.

...But as someone who has read posts by both Lorenfb and Steve W over the last few years, it is WAY more rediculous on one side!

Steve W has posted quite a few dyno results, and has had lots of great, logical comments that make sense, on many different topics. He has been a valuable contributor to Pelican.

Lorenfb, on the other hand, has only one "point" to make over and over:
"All aftermarket chips are worthless. No one can improve on what the factory did".

My car gained 1.5 seconds per lap with nothing more than a chip change.
According to lorenfb, that was not possible.

[ant7]

One things for sure,
Discussions like this can only be good for the potential consumer, ie; the more threads that Loren starts about after market chips, the more people get curious, therefore, the more chips get tried, the more info we all have from individuals on their personal findings.
Going on past testamonials here so far, the deck is already stacked!

A...

[Dublinoh]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

And what is happening here?

Misfire at Track

I don't suppose anyone has ever damaged a stock motor at a DE event. This can only occur with a tuned chip. ...truth is that the OP (misfire) does not know the condition of his engine yet or the cause of his problem.

[kidrock]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

As I wrote in my book, chips trade horsepower for other compromises, such as the need to use higher octane fuel, and higher timing ranges. The gains are real, not imaginary, but they do come with tradeoffs.

-Wayne

Probably the most succinct and most factual statement made in 8 pages.

[winders]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

At the end of the day. Both Loren and Steve are right.

That's not possible. Loren uses some facts to support a conclusion that is not properly thought out. He is a troll....

Scott

[brads911sc]

let me rephrase -- Both raise some valid questions and make some valid points...

Originally Posted by winders

That's not possible. Loren uses some facts to support a conclusion that is not properly thought out. He is a troll....

Scott

[quattrorunner]

I'm thinking that this might get Loren banned.

Please let it be so..

[Big Jon Jacobs]

Don't ban lorenfb! He has just as much right to say stupid things just like everyone else on this board and besides he is the only one with the guts to call out Steve Wong. Steve happily plays along with lorenfb and gets into it with him. The fact of the matter is this, lorenfb has yet to show anyone on this board that his claims are actually provable and let alone true. So don't ban him, he has right to talk out of his tail as well.