Performance Tuning - The Myth - - Page 6

winders · 06-15-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

....when the AFR is close to the ideal of 12.6.

An AFR of 12.6 is not ideal. At least not if you are tuning for performance. We used to tune all of our race bikes, running on premium pump gas, to no richer than 13:1. On my race bike, I preferred 13.2:1. Based on Steve Wong's data, it seems Porsche engines like that AFR as well.

Scott

Reaper930 · 06-15-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"there are some in life that pursue perfection at what they do"

Please!

"Most of these cars left the factory over 25 years ago - you think there aren't updates since then to improve drivability and/or safe power?"

Drank the cool-aide!

Watch it pumpkin - you want some Kool-Aid (at least spell it right) you come get some.

How many of these have you built, tuned and piloted? That's what I thought. STFU newb.

Some of us are trying to help others, for example an EFI ITB kit for the NA 911's that's plug and play...what have you done lately?

Lorenfb · 01:03 PM

"not a 4 point range as you previously stated."

Where is that stated? The timing was tweaked 3-4 degrees.
The torque curve is fairly flat around 12.6. Check here: Graphs

"At least not if you are tuning for performance. We used to tune all of our race bikes, running on premium pump gas, to no richer than 13:1. On my race bike, I preferred 13.2:1"

And then there are others who believe that it's really 13.333333 that's the ideal, right?

"Some of us are trying to help others, for example an EFI ITB kit for the NA 911's that's plug and play"

Guessed as much? Right, plug & play. And what's the today's bargain price?

Tippy · 06-15-2012, 01:05 PM

You said 4 points, 10.6-14.6 equals little to NO power gains.

I'd like to reiterate what someone else said about "hearing" AFR's. Rich is quiet, lean is loud. Changing sounds is a result of differing power.

LJ851 · 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"not a 4 point range as you previously stated."

Where is that stated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

Another one that didn't fully read and understand what was posted. It was stated
that once the AFRs are within 1-2 points of the ideal of 12.6 (that's 10.6 to 14.6)
little to NO improvement in torque results and this was demonstrated in the the
second graph.

Um, do you not even remember your own posts?

warner53 · warner53's Garage

Loren, sit down, you come across like a drunk looking for a fight.

Wow, I can't believe I just said that.

ben parrish · 06-15-2012, 01:07 PM

how many years has he been baiting people to argue? A long time...he still knows it all..just ask him.

SilberUrS6 · 06-15-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben parrish

how many years has he been baiting people to argue? A long time...he still knows it all..just ask him.

I forgot that he was a troll. And I even fed him.

Reaper930 · 06-15-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"Some of us are trying to help others, for example an EFI ITB kit for the NA 911's that's plug and play"

Guessed as much? Right, plug & play. And what's the today's bargain price?

We started DZ to support the turbo enthusiasts out there because we were sick of being ripped off with BS parts - question us all you want our reputation speaks for itself.

As for the EFI kit here's the link, you tell me how its just "hype and BS"

$3,378 DZ X-Factory ITB Setup

Done BY enthusiasts FOR enthusiasts. You assemble a product that works so well and package it. Or do you PRODUCE ANYTHING...?

winders · 06-15-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

And then there are others who believe that it's really 13.333333 that's the ideal, right?

No, I didn't say that. But, and AFR 12.5 certainly is not it if you are tuning for performance!!!

Scott

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"the dyno charts posted is complete BS. It's not even the same car, the power curves in each are completely different. Furthermore, the dyno chart does not even resemble any 3.2 as claimed."

Actually, it really is a 911 3.2. The power curves are just different runs with a 3-4 degree timing
change. So now with these latest graphs, it appears that some so-called tuners are not really as
capable tuning 911 3.2 engines as they thought!

Your charts are complete BS. However, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? $100,000 cash. Have any pelican member here bring their car to a Dynojet here in So Cal. No turbos, nitrous, 3.4s or 3.5s, variorams etc, but exhaust is free. Just a true standard Carrera 3.2 as you claim. We'll put race gas in it and if you produce ~225 ft-lbs of torque at 5000 rpm, kudos to you and you have my $100k. But if you don't produce that, or a chart anywhere similar to what you claim you did, then it proves your claims are bogus and you loose and pay up $100k. Sounds like a easy win for someone who believes in what they claim right?

LJ851 · 06-15-2012, 01:27 PM

Performance Tuning - The Reality

Put your money where your mouth is.

brads911sc · brads911sc's Garage

So what is the optimal EFI for a Sc with a recurved dizzy, PMO ITB's/EFI, and 3.2 SS with GT-2 (BC/40 similar) Cams... spirited street... 13.1 across the board?

DW SD · 06-15-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve W

Your charts are complete BS. However, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? $100,000 cash. Have any pelican member here bring their car to a Dynojet here in So Cal. No turbos, nitrous, 3.4s or 3.5s, variorams etc, but exhaust is free. Just a true standard Carrera 3.2 as you claim. We'll put race gas in it and if you produce ~225 ft-lbs of torque at 5000 rpm, kudos to you and you have my $100k. But if you don't produce that, or a chart anywhere similar to what you claim you did, then it proves your claims are bogus and you loose and pay up $100k. Sounds like a easy win for someone who believes in what they claim right?

subscribed. Steve is a good man and I'd like to witness the showdown.

Reaper930 · 06-15-2012, 01:54 PM

Steve - you might not be a fellow turbo guy, but you def. have two big K29's having off the back end brother. Kudos - I hope this poser takes the challenge, its funny how so many talk tough but never pony up and show what they've got.

This restores my faith in this board.

McLovin · 06-15-2012, 01:59 PM

STFU x 100,000

LJ851 · 06-15-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper930

This restores my faith in this board.

Glad to see you back. I'm looking forward to your next adventures here and on FG.

One thing that loren did get right was the title of this thread!

island911 · 06-15-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

As I wrote in my book, chips trade horsepower for other compromises, such as the need to use higher octane fuel, and higher timing ranges. The gains are real, not imaginary, but they do come with tradeoffs.

-Wayne

Clearly you have an axe to grind with chip suppliers. ...and don't understand that SW has good customer service.

Seriously, I don't understand why your (nicely concise) statement can't be the end of this.

Oh, right, because this is a pissing contest between a tribe-member and their nay-saying foe.

Big Jon Jacobs · 06-15-2012, 04:48 PM

Having a great time with this one boys!

Lorenfb · 06-15-2012, 05:14 PM

Given the number of incomprehensible posts, many need to re-read the initial post.
Also, it's unfortunate that when presented with facts which challenge their outlook,
many enter the attack mode and degrade the thread to a level which loses any value
of further discussion.