Porsche Dealer Can't Align

[SC-Alfa]

So this has been bothering me for a while. Several months ago, I took my 81SC to the local Porsche/Audi dealer for an alignment.

After the work was done, I drove the car and noticed it was pulling slightly to the right, so I took at back to the dealership and asked them to have another look at it.

The Mechanic - old guy who has been working on these cars for years - came out and told me this was the best he could do with my car. He said the front end was "sagging" and cited age as the reason he could not do anything for me. He said he was unable to adjust the rear alignment correctly, but if I were to take it apart and clean it, "that might help". He said, for an old car, "it's not that bad".

Now he is right, its almost perfect, but nevertheless it does pull to the right - annoys me. Also I know I'm not giving you guys much info here, but does the mechanics story sound right to you, or did he just not want to put it back up on the rack?

[theiceman]

Your first problem was taking your 30 year old classic to a modern appliance repair shop. Take it to a indy that specializes in race set ups and alignments.

[tazzieman]

Are you still on the original bushings?
Did you get a computer printout of the before/after specs?
Even with a full suspension refurb my alignment guy couldn't get it perfect. But it tracks straight nonetheless.

[kyle242gt]

Give me a freakin break.

Do this - find a level lot, drive straight, perfectly, get out and measure the toe.

If toe checks out, jack up the front and check for slop.

I'm with theiceman - find a good local shop that will ballast (important in a light car), corner balance, road test, and call with any questions instead of just saying, "it's an old car, let me introduce you to our sales manager, we have a 1999 Boxster over there you'd just loooove".

[steely]

+1 - that's the first time I heard that "cleaning it" would improve alignment or an age related issue. Did he offer more details? Better help would have been to recommend bushing or strut cartridge replacement at the very least, but it should have come out straight. Was it worse coming out than going in? Look for a seasoned independent.

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally Posted by SC-Alfa

Several months ago, I took my 81SC to the local Porsche/Audi dealer for an alignment.

Well there's your problem! Follow theiceman's recommendation.

I took mine to a shop that specializes on classic cars and race cars for the first time a few months ago and told them what I wanted out of my car. The results were amazing. The guy called me three times as he was working on the car to tell me what he was finding. The result was a perfect alignment for what I wanted to use the car for.

[porsche930dude]

alignments are a tough thing to get right. My brother does them every day. Specs change with every little thing you touch. and sometimes you get a different reading each time you set it up. Especially on an older machine . We tried to align my 82 to fix the right rear tire wear seemed to be wearing a little more than the others. It was pretty much impossible to get a consistent reading. Said the front was way out of spec but it rides straight as an arrow with zero tire wear. Best you can do is ask for your money back since they didnt do the job right and try somwhere else

[Chuck Moreland]

The only thing that 'cleaning' can assist in alignment is removal of the goop the factory slops on the front camber plates. Getting extreme settings of front camber often require removal of this goop. On the rear.......... cleaning is akin to adjusting the muffler bearings


The car may indeed be sagging due to age. That should not prevent a proper alignment.

What are the alignment settings he arrived at? Did he give you a printout? What are the target settings?

It is possible for the alignment to be spot on, and yet the car still pulls. There are a couple possible reasons for this. By far the most likely reason is the corner balance is significantly off. This will make a perfectly aligned car pull.


You really need an experienced specialist if you want this done right. There aren't many out there. Give your location and you may get a good recommendation.

[ivangene]

yup, cleaning worn out rubber will revitalize it - its a secret tire MFG's and bushing makers dont want you to know about

post where you are located and someone might offer a good reference to a real shop - not a dealer or a guy offering suspension refresh via a bottle of dish washing soap

[jrbennett]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

...By far the most likely reason is the corner balance is significantly off. This will make a perfectly aligned car pull.

I agree that corner balance could be (most likely is) off.

I certainly haven't seen it all, but I've aligned several 911SCs. Most of them have had the front ride height adjusted several times, but rarely are they balanced.

[tobluforu]

This is most likely the case of a dealer/mechanic that is use to aligning all the new cars, and does not want to deal with the older ones. Find a new shop, not a dealer.

[OsoMoore]

I had my 79 SC aligned by a local well-respected tire shop. He couldn't get it totally within spec (its lowered to Euro height), but it was much improved. It can be done on SCs.

[Quicksilver]

Where are you located? (update your profile with a location)

Once we know where you are it is almost certain that someone will know a shop that can do a correct corner balance and alignment in your area.

---
That said, the other advice is important too. Why get a car with old worn out, deformed bushings balanced and aligned when you will have to do it again when you replace them?
Give the suspension a 'fresh up' and then have it aligned and balanced. It will feel like a new car.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by SC-Alfa

. . .
He said the front end was "sagging" and cited age as the reason he could not do anything for me.
. . .

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

. . .
The car may indeed be sagging due to age. That should not prevent a proper alignment.
. . .

Never quite understood the common "sagging springs" comments that make it seem that springs soften with age. The Young Modulus of steel doesn't change with age. If the steel has yielded then adjusting/shimming will restore the static height. If the metal has lost heat treat through some major abuse (like a fire) it may yield but that has nothing to do with age. If the cross section is reduced through rust or wear then that has nothing to do with age. The rubber in suspensions will flow/deform but that is its own failure, not the springs.

[javadog]

Another possible reason that your car pulls to the right is that almost all roads have some camber to them, to facilitate drainage. In the old days, it was not uncommon to put slightly different castor settings on the LF and RF to counter this. You might try driving in the left lane of a multi lane freeway and see what it's like. Or find a dead flat parking lot (harder to find than you might think, as they are contoured to drain also) and see what happens. I'd hate to see you chase your tail if it's just the road camber causing this...

Without the printout of the alignment results, we can only guess.

JR

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Never quite understood the common "sagging springs" comments that make it seem that springs soften with age. The Young Modulus of steel doesn't change with age. If the steel has yielded then adjusting/shimming will restore the static height. If the metal has lost heat treat through some major abuse (like a fire) it may yield but that has nothing to do with age. If the cross section is reduced through rust or wear then that has nothing to do with age. The rubber in suspensions will flow/deform but that is its own failure, not the springs.

You must know that a 81 SC does not have any conventional springs in the suspension, just torsion bars. The bushings get worn and allow the torsion bars to rub.

The best advice is find a good aftermarket alignment guy.

[JFairman]

I think the title of your post explains it...

The dealer mechanic is in a haze, probably old and lazy and doesn't want to deal with corroded nuts and bolts on a 30 year old car anymore. Especially on the rear suspension.
Front toe adjustment is real easy, and thats probably all he did.

If toe, camber, and caster are correct then corner balance is probably incorrect or the front tires are bad. If the car pulls to the right there may be more weight on the left front and right rear than the other wheels.

If they didn't give you a computer print out of the alignment specs then have no idea whats what with it and you deserve your money back.

[SC-Alfa]

Thanks for all the responses! I share your collective skepticism when it comes to dealers. This is why my wife and I own two older BMW's (99 M3 and 2001 525i) which are our daily drivers and the 81 SC and 85 Alfa Spider (hence the username), because I distrust most mechanics in general and all dealerships in particular. I am able to do 90% of the work on these cars myself. However this approach requires that I have backup cars for when one or more of them is awaiting parts, or for when I'm traveling for work and can't work on them - wife has to get to work. The sports cars have always made good backups.

That being said I went to this particular mechanic, who happens to work at a dealership, because I've worked with him before. Since I've owned the SC for over twenty years, I've had occasion to to deal with him before. He has done a top end engine rebuild for me and during that process he never tried to talk me into anything I didn't need. In fact he talked me out of a few things I didn't, Porsche factory head studs, recommended on the down low I find an aftermarket alternative. Additionally he has been available by phone for many questions unrelated to the engine work. Btw this guy is in his 60's and is always under one of our older cars whenever I see him.

So this is why when the car needed an alignment, I gave the dealership a try.

All that being said and in response to several of your posts. I do not plan on upgrading the bushings at this time. I have already replaced a few things over the years, tie-rod ends, ball joints, various individual bushings as needed, don't even remember anymore, its been a long time. But anyway the car rides nice, corners well and I'm still happy with the suspension - except for this pulling issue.

I will take your collective advice and take the car to a independent shop. Thanks for that btw.

I live in Lancaster PA - 2 hrs. west of Philadelphia. Does anyone know of a local shop that specializes in classic Porsche alignments, oh and corner balancing?

[Matt Monson]

Dougherty Automotive is not too far from you to the East in West Chester. They are equipped to do what you need done. Dougherty Automotive Services | Porsche Parts & Service | 610.692.6039

Though they may also tell you that you need bushings on your 31 year old car. You would also be amazed at how much new bushing on the torsion bars, front and rear, change the feel of the car. It is money well spent if you are still on original bushings.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by theiceman

Your first problem was taking your 30 year old classic to a modern appliance repair shop. Take it to a indy that specializes in race set ups and alignments.

First reply, correct answer. Despite your past dealings with this individual, it may be that performing an alignment and corner balance on an old Porsche is outside of his skillset or that the dealer service department is not properly equipped. Just for the sake of amusement, I need to stop by my dealer and ask them for a corner balance price on my '88 Carrera. Maybe a coolant flush too.......