Pagid Blacks for street use

[ivangene]

OK - so when I bought them I was planning to change pads for track, then to textar's for street....

BUT - I just couldnt!

I know maybe its silly to run such pads on the street but I found them to be excellent for daily driving. I like to late brake with a little "purpose" so there really was never any noise to speak of and the cold "bite" always seemed ok

Last night I pulled my pads because after 11 track days...they are DEAD. I put in my Textar's and went for a "bedding" run

WOW - I thought they were good BEFORE...not so much after almost a year of the blacks. I will be replacing my stock pads a.s.a.p. with more Pagids

Most threads on this subject are quite old so I started a new

comments? opinions?

[IROC]

I am tempted to do the same thing (or similar). I ran Pagid oranges (street/track) for years and didn't realize how much I liked the higher coefficient of friction until I recently put some MetalMasters in just for the heck of it. I used the MetalMasters back in the mid-90s and thought they were fine, but am thinking about going back to the oranges.

[88911coupe]

How are the Pagids for dust?

[ivangene]

on my Fuch's they do fine - Rejex on them inside and out
on my track wheels they leave TONS - BUT it washes off really easy because Iit's only 1-2 days at a time and I put Rejex on my wheels inside and out

[88911coupe]

What is Rejex?

[onewhippedpuppy]

My '88 came with Pagid Orange installed front/back, I can't wait to get them swapped out. They are loud and have limited bite around town. I just purchased the car, so I have no idea how many track sessions are on the current pads.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

My '88 came with Pagid Orange installed front/back, I can't wait to get them swapped out. They are loud and have limited bite around town. I just purchased the car, so I have no idea how many track sessions are on the current pads.

My experience has been just the opposite. I ran oranges from 1996 until last year and they have always been quiet and the stopping power is phenomenal compared to street pads. I liked them so much I stuck with them long after everyone else said they were crap. I always replaced them when they had plenty of material left (since I was using them on the track) but kept them (because they had so much material left) and so I am thinking of putting them back on...

Then again, I have Carrera brakes on a 2400 lb car, so that might make a difference.

[wildcat077]

Ed,

I drive with Pagid RS19 fronts and RS14 rears all the time and although they squeal quite a bit,it gives the car character ...

Fronts are now roasted after 30 some track days but still good enough for the street until i replace them this Winter after the track season.
Most of my buddies don't bother replacing their track pads after the events either ...

As far as dust goes,i found them horrible on my FM10's so i bought a set of Profil 5 black anodized track wheels ... no more spokes ,no more polishing lips,all black .....wooooohooooo

Cheers !
Phil

[ivangene]

30 Track Days!!
I got 10 !!!

I need braking lessons

rejex: - wonderful EASY on - EASY off "wax" Airplane guys use it on belly or planes and leading edges - makes bug removal and oil a breeze!!
Eric at bumperplugs carries it - lots of other places too (amazon)

[tshebib]

Originally Posted by wildcat077

Ed,

I drive with Pagid RS19 fronts and RS14 rears all the time and although they squeal quite a bit,it gives the car character ...

Fronts are now roasted after 30 some track days but still good enough for the street until i replace them this Winter after the track season.
Most of my buddies don't bother replacing their track pads after the events either ...

As far as dust goes,i found them horrible on my FM10's so i bought a set of Profil 5 black anodized track wheels ... no more spokes ,no more polishing lips,all black .....wooooohooooo

Cheers !
Phil

Phil, I see you're using 996TT brakes. I'm in desperate need of a brake upgrade and have been researching the subject. Did you run into any issues with front lock up with the front biased TT brakes? I've kind of narrowed my decision to either TT's or regular 996 brakes. Any advise? BTW your're one lucky guy being close to Tremblant and Calabogie-two great tracks.
Tom

[spuggy]

I run 996 N/A brakes on a ~2500 lb, 400+HP SC-flared car with Pagid Yellow (RS19) front and Black (RS14) rear.

Car is primarily street-driven; from completely cold, if you have to hit the brakes hard, you can feel the rears grab momentarily faster than the fronts, but the car hunches down flat/even. Oh, and Just Stops. Bags of feel.

Once they've gassed off (which it appears, with 996 brakes, will ONLY happen at the track - they just don't get hot enough on the street no matter how hard you try) they squeal/ring if you're toying with them - like just lightly slowing down for lights - but they make no noise at all when using them for real.

They dust, but not much worse than stock, I think. Front/rear bias is great, so long as you don't brake hard before the weight settles back down on the front, because the fronts will just push along in a cloud of smoke if it's still light...

That doesn't happen if you let the weight distribution settle back - even if the fronts lock under very rapid/heavy downhill braking - like when some bozo changes lanes and turns the 75 ft you were going to use to slow down into 20 ft to stop dead, the brakes remain effective and controllable/easy to modulate with a high/rock hard pedal.

The pads seem to last for a long time as well.

[porterdog]

How is rotor life with these racy pads when used on the street?

[Bill Verburg]

Pagid orange is an older and somewhat temperamental compound, nothing wrong w/ it except that there are much better choices

I got 10,000 track mi out of my last set of front RS19(yellow), over 2 sets of rotors, they don't make nose unless they get dirty and they don't like to be put away wet. So flush them w/ a hose regularly then dry them out completely before putting them to bed.

I switched to RS29 yellow at the last pad change, but only have a couple of 1000 mi on them, no noise unless dirty and much more bite.

Some guys do swear by the blacks as they do have more bite than any of the yellow or orange but then they also go through rotors faster too.

Guys that want top move bias to the back often use yellow front and black in back, monitor you rotor temps to determine if this is desirable, I have 993RS on both my cars and rotor temps are very close at both ends, this tells me I am getting all Ican from the rears it also explains why I get such great life from the fronts

[ivangene]

I am having a hard time figuring out why I have 10 track days - about 200/day max - so like 2k miles...plus some driving to and from work - maybe 4-6k miles? and my pads are DEAD

me thinks heat but I have not recorded or really even considered it before now

this is a stock 86 set up aside from pads (and some suspension/tires)

My rotors dont look bad at all. I mean they are BLUE when I come in from a session but clean up ok and seem to keep right on stopping - MC is stock, running motul 600 fluid and SS lines

I suppose it's time to think more about this - I cant really afford $40/day in brake pad plus the other stuff (tires/gas/oil ect)

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by ivangene

I am having a hard time figuring out why I have 10 track days - about 200/day max - so like 2k miles...plus some driving to and from work - maybe 4-6k miles? and my pads are DEAD

me thinks heat but I have not recorded or really even considered it before now

this is a stock 86 set up aside from pads (and some suspension/tires)

My rotors dont look bad at all. I mean they are BLUE when I come in from a session but clean up ok and seem to keep right on stopping - MC is stock, running motul 600 fluid and SS lines

I suppose it's time to think more about this - I cant really afford $40/day in brake pad plus the other stuff (tires/gas/oil ect)

The brakes on an '86 Carrera are undersized for the weight and speed potential of the car, so they run hot, easily 2x the tamps mine run at, hence the shorter life expectancy and the desire of many to upgrade their brakes.

I know that if you are racing in a class you are often restricted as to what you can do wrt brake improvements, but anything that can be done to reduce temps is extremely desirable

[ivangene]

Thanks Bill - I have a set of 964 calipers sittin on my dest --- I have been reading about that and planning to go that way for cost reasons

944T front rotors and stock rears which will be pushing my MC to its limits

plan to remove the axial mounting tabs and drill radial holes then make an adapter from the 3.5 spacing to the new holes - add the 5mm spacer for the rotor - that should give me larger heat sink to work with

if anyone knows the hole spacing and dia. for the 964 radial mounting holes

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by ivangene

Thanks Bill - I have a set of 964 calipers sittin on my dest --- I have been reading about that and planning to go that way for cost reasons

944T front rotors and stock rears which will be pushing my MC to its limits

plan to remove the axial mounting tabs and drill radial holes then make an adapter from the 3.5 spacing to the new holes - add the 5mm spacer for the rotor - that should give me larger heat sink to work with

if anyone knows the hole spacing and dia. for the 964 radial mounting holes

You can do that
but as long as you are going to that length you might as well just go to 2 piece 304x32 930 size fronts, then use slightly modified 964 rears on 930 rotors in back, the rear is almost but not quite a bolt on.

Then use a 930 m/c

[wildcat077]

Originally Posted by tshebib

Phil, I see you're using 996TT brakes. I'm in desperate need of a brake upgrade and have been researching the subject. Did you run into any issues with front lock up with the front biased TT brakes? I've kind of narrowed my decision to either TT's or regular 996 brakes. Any advise? BTW your're one lucky guy being close to Tremblant and Calabogie-two great tracks.
Tom

Tom,

996TT brakes on a Carrera are a wonderful upgrade,you can look it as a maintenance free, bulletproof braking system as compared to some of my track buddies using stock 911 brakes going through two sets of pads per season and having very nice purple rotors at every outing !

I've locked up and flat spotted my front tires a few times at first when i was using high performance street tires but now i use "R" compounds and i've learned to modulate my braking a lot better in the last two years.
I picked up a Fabcar dual master assembly which i'll be installing this Winter along with an adjustable bias knob which will definitely even out the brake bias and give my pads and rotors more even wear.I also fabbed a front brake cooling duct system to keep things cooler as there is way more heat from the front brakes as compared to the rears on a stock 911.
If you can pick up some 996TT calipers,go for it and order the "instant G" adaptor kit from Steve Timmins,he's a great person to deal with and new OEM rotors are relatively cheap !
As far as Le Circuit Mont Tremblant goes,it's my home track and i've got 10 days there so far this year with two more next weekend.Calabogie was a blast in August with it's 20 corners

Cheers !
Phil

[onewhippedpuppy]

Quote de onewhippedpuppy

My '88 came with Pagid Orange installed front/back, I can't wait to get them swapped out. They are loud and have limited bite around town. I just purchased the car, so I have no idea how many track sessions are on the current pads.

My experience has been just the opposite. I ran oranges from 1996 until last year and they have always been quiet and the stopping power is phenomenal compared to street pads. I liked them so much I stuck with them long after everyone else said they were crap. I always replaced them when they had plenty of material left (since I was using them on the track) but kept them (because they had so much material left) and so I am thinking of putting them back on...



Then again, I have Carrera brakes on a 2400 lb car, so that might make a difference.

My car was formerly used for club racing, so it has 993TT front/928S4 rear calipers with two piece cross drilled rotors, a 930 master cylinder, and an adjustable bias valve. I have no idea how old the pads are, the car hasn't been regularly driven since 2000 so I suspect 12 years. They may just be shot.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

My car was formerly used for club racing, so it has 993TT front/928S4 rear calipers with two piece cross drilled rotors, a 930 master cylinder, and an adjustable bias valve. I have no idea how old the pads are, the car hasn't been regularly driven since 2000 so I suspect 12 years. They may just be shot.

Anecdotal data point, but it seems to me that the aluminum calipers make a lot more noise with track pads than cast iron calipers.