3.6 rebuild questions

[ez2lov]

I need to rebuild my motor, i did a conversion last year into my SC , last week motor started ratlling , blew a HUGE cloud of white/Blue smoke and started clanking and pinging, been told its the timing chains,

I want to rebuild my motor myself to safe on labour cost and turn it into a project for myself to learn , i am mechanically enclined
My question is what should i look for or replace when doing this rebuild, more horsepower? or keep it stock?

What are your opinions on the best set up for a daily driver with a little bit more of an edge?

1st thing i did when i bought my porsche 13yrs ago was found pelican , and over the years this site has helped me drastically !!!!

Thank you
George

[Joeaksa]

Ex2lov(a name sure would help, we are a friendly group here and you will get more advise if people know who they are talking with)

The question that needs to be answered is what kind of mileage is on the 3.6 already? Burning any oil before it started to puke or ??

Personally if I am going to yank any engine and start pulling tin off of if, I am going to do a upper cylinder job. Prolly new pistons, rings, valve job and guides and so on at a minimum. And thats if the engine has under say 150k miles on it.

If the engine has more miles than that on it, then personally I would look at splitting the case and doing a complete overhaul. Main/rod bearings are not that expensive and you are 80% there anyways.

I used to overhaul air cooled aircraft engines so have a bit of experience here. Am also not far away from being in the same boat that you are right now as the gent who works on my 3.6 just told me that the valve guides are starting to smoke and its not far from time to yank the engine out. Mine has about 95k miles on it, so hoping that the bottom end is fine and ready to drive another 100k miles with a fresh top end on it.

Joe

[ez2lov]

Im sorry Joe , i posted in the wrong thread and copy and pasted into this thread and didnt copy my name ,
I bought this motor 3 years ago from a NineApart up here in toronto , the guy said the engine had 80000 km on it , before i purchased it my mechanic went up and did a leak down test on it , it registered 2% to 6% all the way across , before my engine started making this noise 3 weeks ago , i had takin it in cause it was leaking oil , it was the transmission seal at the shift coupler, after looking at the motor my mechanic advised me that the heads were leaking oil just a little bit , he said it would need a top end rebuild but if im going to do that while the motor is out of the car to do the whole thing that way i would be garanteed to have a strong motor for years to come, problem is my mechanic quoted me around 12000 to do it , and thats just to rebuild without doing any mods at all , to keep the costs down and winter slowly approaching i thought i would make a winter project out of it so i could cut back on the costs , ,

[ez2lov]

Since the motor has been in the car i have probably put 10000 km on it

[Joeaksa]

Thanks for the reply and still do not know your name...

80,000 kilometers is excellent mileage and the bottom end, unless its been abused, should be a perfect engine for a upper cylinder overhaul job. You could just do the timing chains but for me once I would be that deep into an engine, its not that much more work to do rings and valves.

Truthfully at 80,000 klicks I am not sure that I would open up the crankcase unless there was a good reason to do so. Porsche does a good job building them and personally I see no reason to keep it all together until it needs looking at.

[ez2lov]

Thanks Joe , my name is George , i added to the original post i thought you might have seen it ,

To get into this engine to do the rings and valves , what else should i do or can i do to get a little bit more horsepower, also is there a book or somewhere i can get a list on how to tear it down and what to look for when i am ? I really want to do this myself to save me some money and get the wife loving my car again lol , when i built this car i went a little bit crazy and spent way to much money , now i need to take it easy and not make this car my 2 mortgage, just the engine and the parts from instant g cost me 15000, not including all the bumpers and wing from better boddies 2400, new paint job was 7500, new top and cab frame 3000, the seats were 2000, gemballa wheels 3000 tires 2700,, so i kinda need to relax a bit on the funds and need to do this saving as much as i can ,

[Sboxin]

George,

Well, you have put a LOT of money in this project...

Books -- Wayne's engine rebuild book here on Pelican
Also, this forum is great and there are several regular expert contributors that can help you when you get going on this project. There are rebuild threads on the Rebuild forum by people like Bruce at Flat6pac - do a search on these.

Like JoeA says the bottom end is usually sound and a quick check can be done on the rod bearings without splitting the case - we did and found #5 rod bearing worn badly and so we then opened the case to replace all bearings - the intermediate shaft most times needs new bearings anyhow...

If you want to get a bit more power then explore cams and chips -- there are several excellent suppliers.

First, do a leak down to determine the condition of the valves and rings
Second, check the oil and filter for metal particles.
Third, checking the cam chains:
- remove muffler
- open up chain covers
- examine chains, tensioners, guides
- determine if this is the major problem
- if this is the problem - fix and drive

If you have decided already to do a full rebuild then proceed with a full tear down and inspect and measure all parts for wear tolerances. If you have read the threads on this forum then you know this rebuild is expensive - 5K-15K even when DIY.


We are in the middle of a 3.6 rebuild and found many parts to replace (cylinders reconditioned by EBS) that were not suspect ahead of time. But, this engine had very little recorded history.

Regards,

[uwanna]

You haven't mentioned the vintage of your 3.6. Some of the early 964s had oil leaking problems from the head/barrel sealing joint. The later 964s were built with a sealing ring to prevent the leaks. Since you mentioned cylinder oil leaks, perhaps you might search for retrofit solutions if you have an early 964.(the ones with the aluminum intake manifolds)

[Joeaksa]

George,

Roy makes some good points and even if you find the rod bearings are a bit worn, they can be replaced without splitting the case.

More power? First thing I would do is a good free flowing exhaust then upgraded DME chip. Then and only then think about cams, pistons or bigger cylinders ala 3.8 upgrade. You can do a lot "on the outside" to make the engine run quite a bit better. That said, as you appear to be going inside the engine now is a good time to look at options.

[ez2lov]

Do i have to drop the motor to get to the timming chains? here is a pic of my motor getting it ready to drop in my car after all the conversion parts were installed , i think its the newer 964 engine, it was from a 1994 ,

[ez2lov]

I have a free flowing exhaust , and it sounds great , also bought the chip from steve at instant -g , put a high performance clutch in , the car ran really good and strong till this happened ,

[ez2lov]

I have done a search on here on how to do the timing chains and nothing comes up , or is it just me ,

[Sboxin]

Originally Posted by ez2lov

Do i have to drop the motor to get to the timming chains? here is a pic of my motor getting it ready to drop in my car after all the conversion parts were installed , i think its the newer 964 engine, it was from a 1994 ,

Yes, to remove the chain covers the AC bracket and back engine tin needs to come off and the distributors. It is just a lot easier to work on these engines out of the car. Your old SC 3.2L chain covers could be removed in the car OK. The 3.6 Chain Tensioners can be removed in the car if they failed - they are different than 3.2L .

You might talk to you local tech about all this too -- do you have an Indi shop or use the Porsche dealer? They may have a method to replace chains and time cams in the car...but, since you have said you wanted a DIY experience, now is the time to jump in.
However, this engine work will not be inexpensive...never is with Porsche.

Searching on the Forum is a learned talent - not easy or intuitive - if you have the time
look into the comments the most experienced engine building members post on the different forums in Pelican. Several have posted full rebuild photos and comments.

There are also special Porsche tools and then some real tips on this forum about how to get around that in some cases. A big air compressor and impact tool can make quick work out of some bolts - crank pulley, cam bolts... However, special tools are definitely needed for the cam timing procedure.

IF you decide to DIY, please get Wayne's book and read it through first (it covers older 911 engines but the process is the same) There is other info that you will need to get off this Pelican Forum as you go -- but, a lot of research and time is needed. Be prepared.

I am NOT an expert, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a few times...

Take care,
Regards,

[Joeaksa]

Agree with Roy.

Its so easy to take the engine out and once out you have so much better access to everything that I would never try something like this in the car.

Also if you are really thinking of a valve or upper end job, there is no way to even think about doing that in the car, so might as well just yank the thing and do it right whichever way you decide to go.

[ez2lov]

thats what i kinda wanted to avoid was dropping the motor to fix the timing chains , then put it back in and drop it again in the winter time to do the rebuild , guess i gotta do what i have to do , hopefully i can get it dropped out this weekend or week coming , and see exactly whats going on in there,

[Joeaksa]

It should only take an hour or so to get the motor out, so its not a big deal. Also it gets everything ready to do this winter when you are ready to put the car down.