My engine arrived this week!

[JonT]

My beautiful new (used) 3.6L for my conversion arrived this week from NC. I'm so freakin excited I can barely stand it. I want to put a peice of glass on top and make it my kitchen table. Installation begins this week. New wheels and tires on their way too--Kenisis supercups (17x7,17x9) and Kumho's (215/45, 255/40). My baby will comin home with a new heart and new shoes. Got to clean up the baby room before I bring her home--new paint, cabinets, and resurface floor.

[CBRacerX]

Jon -

I've got mine being delivered to the house tomorrow (Monday) from Dusseldorf. I'm quite excited myself! My current plans are to purchase "the kit" from Dr. Timmons for all the basics. I am keeping heat and A/C, so that has to be dealt with. I am also mulling over the exhaust system options. I have a G-50 car, so I believe I can use the stock exhaust heat exchangers, but the engine is coming without a muffler and perhaps a B&B setup (they have a special exhaust for late engine in early car, yes?) with a Dr. T muffler is in my future...

What are your plans? Anyone have a good suggestion on the exhaust system?

Thanks,

Chris Brown
'87 Coupe

[JonT]

The guy I bought the engine from put on some 993 headers w/heat exchangers (and modified them to work with my current heat) on my engine as a less expensive alternative to B & B headers and supposedly quite free flowing. We're still trying to figure out how to attach these to the B & B dual inlet/dual outlet muffler I purchased used. Some special modifications will need to be done and haven't figured it out yet. I purchased the a/c compressor from him too and special fittings will be needed to mate them to the stock system. I hope it all works without too many unexpected modifications that will add up $$ fast! Good luck with your project!

[Jack Olsen]

I went for the B&B headers/muffler, finally. But a cost-effective way to go is the 993 headers mated to an early sport muffler. I think there are pictures floating around (do a search) of this setup done by Steve Weiner's shop.

The 993 headers are comparable to the B&Bs, in terms of performance (they're the main reason the 3.6 in the 993 has better output than the 964 version), and you can cut/re-weld the flanges to fit the reversed stud placement on the earlier 3.6 engines.

I also have a Carrera exhaust/muffler modified for this, which I'd happily sell to someone who's looking for a short-term solution to get them on the road (and also -- as a side benefit -- increase low-end torque).

[JonT]

Jack--is the cutting and rewelding of the flanges on the 993 headers a major ordeal? I really would like to use my B & B muffler I purchased instead of another. However, if the work and $ required to make the 993 headers work with the B & B is too much I'd be better off just getting the B & B headers in the long run. Question-can the intakes on the B & B be shortened to accomodate the 993 inverted angled headers? This would kill resale if I butchered the B & B though (if I don't like it).

[Jack Olsen]

I think the 993 cutting/welding can be farmed out here in L.A. for $100 or $150. Since you can pick up the 993 exchangers so cheap, it seems like a no-brainer. If you're interested in the place that does it, here, shoot me an email at jackolsen@attbi.com, and when I'm home next week I'll get the name.

[CBRacerX]

Did you experience any of the booming/resonance that people talk about with the B&B complete setup?

[Jack Olsen]

Yes. I like the sound of the exhaust, overall, but there's a small piece of the rev band (around 2K) that's pretty annoying.

I'm thinking of doing some surgery to try and reduce it.

[Bill Verburg]

B&B will custom make(at no extra charge, just tell them what you are doing) a header set with the 964 style heater inlets and 911 style heater outlets. Here is a pic on my car


The 964 heater inlets are slightly ovalized compared to 3.2 heater inlets. Thom Fitspatrick has a pic of the round ones somewhere.

The resonance issue is partly due to the headers tuning effects. Just as the good resonance will smooth out and suck combustion products from the engine up around 45-7000rpm, there is also a bad resonance which does just the opposite from ~17-2300rpm. This effect is compounded by the less effective sound damping provided by sport mufflers.

[Jack Olsen]

Bill, my (uneducated) thinking was to reduce the size of the outlets from the B&B muffler (they're huge, 4-inch pipes, I think), in order to reduce the massive-diffuser-like sound. My thinking is that the huge final outlets are mostly for looks, since the exhaust gasses are considerably cooler (and more dense) at that point in the chain.

But then, I don't know nothin' about exhaust, so please correct me before I cut.

[widebody911]

Here's the setup I fabbed for mine. I've since replaced the accordian tube with a proper RS down pipe (yes, I still intend to look into having those repopped...)

[CBRacerX]

Wow. I didn't expect the heater connection to require such significant fabrication. Thanks very much for putting such an excellent series of pictures up for this!

I noticed that you didn't bother to use an electric blower, instead you used the fan air only (ala the early cars). Is it possible to use some sort of blower, either the 964 (which I understand will interfere with the decklid hinge significantly in the stock location) or the Carrara blower assembly?

Has anyone used the Dr. Timmons muffler with the B&B headers? His website suggests that he has a cure for the dual outlet resonance issue. Take a look...

[Jack Olsen]

Since I didn't want to add any more weight in the back, I added a pair of kick panel blowers up front, to pull the air up from the exchangers, instead of relying on the engine blower to push it.

Works like a charm.

Of course, I was also relying on the conventional wisdom that there was no possible way to retain the blower and air filter in the swap to an earlier tub.

Apparently, nobody told Bill Verburg that it couldn't be done. He got it all to fit without any problem at all.

[Bill Verburg]

Jack, the outlets per se don't add to or decrease the noise. If your B&B muffler is like my old one there is some fluting in the exit arms which will attenuate the higher freq. a bit. If more noise attenuation is desired try fitting something like the Coast mufflers in the or as a replacement for the exit arms. A friend is using twin coasts as the only muffler on his 360 hp(ex John Paul) RSR, the car is quiet and still sounds great!

CBRacerX, As Jack mentioned the factory 964 heating fan will fit without mods, here is a pic in my 76 Carrera 3.0



If you look at the pic taken from the bottom which was in my previous response, all of the heating plumbing is oem 964, only the headers are supplied by B&B to the oem 911 heater tubes on the chassis, no mods or fabrication required, Or you can do as Thom has pictured, your choice.

[CamB]

I don't know if it works on a 964 engine, but you could convert to the early heating system (relies on engine speed for heat, but cleans up the engine bay).

There is an air guide for the left side which clears a twin distributor:

Hey Bill V (and anyone else who 964 distributor and SSI experience)

Just a suggestion...

Cam

[CBRacerX]

Thanks again for all the excellent posts!

The engine is here, I opened the crate and it appears undamaged. However, there are several missing items (rear engine tin, heater blower, ductwork, both coils and wires, throttle body bellcrank) that I have contacted the seller about. I expect he will make good on these items - I'll let you all know!

-Chris

[Mifintifin]

Originally posted by CBRacerX
Thanks again for all the excellent posts!

The engine is here, I opened the crate and it appears undamaged. However, there are several missing items (rear engine tin, heater blower, ductwork, both coils and wires, throttle body bellcrank) that I have contacted the seller about. I expect he will make good on these items - I'll let you all know!

-Chris

Don't you just hate this, it infuriates me! How could someone ship an engine and unintentionally forget these parts? Hope you are successful in getting the other parts!

Mifintifin

82 SC Coupe
83 SC Cab

[JonT]

I agree Mifintifin--you are da man! Mifintifin was my engine supplier by the way...

[CBRacerX]

to make good on the issues. Perhaps Harald thought I really didn't need the blower and ductwork, but as you can see from the discussion above I most certainly do!

As for the bellcrank link, it is a small part that was perhaps missed.

The coils, wires and engine tin are another matter, and of course they were left out. Now that I have contacted him l would hope that this can all be resolved quickly.

-Chris

P.S. Yes, I was mad!

[Speedster94]

hallo
i am the seller of the Engine and had it on Ebay stated as a complete 3,6 Liter Engine , incl, the Harness and Motronic . No
Exhaust system ,no clutch,.
The Question is does a Heaterblower and the Alu pipe belong to the Engine or dont you think it is a Part of the Heater or Exhaust-
system ?
The Ignignitioncoils are a Part of the Electronics of the Car not of the Engine ?
If not how about the DME relay or the Oillines and the Cooler,the
Fuelpump . the Powersteeringunit ,the Fuel lines etc......
I have no Problem in solving this matter ,i just want to know if i am so wrong .
The Engine is all complete and you can put it in any 964 Car to replace the old one . If you need it for a conversion of course you need some auxilary items .
i also think it would be nice to hear my opinion first before you go public and also mention the Price and the Transit Time of 1 Week
from End to End .
Regards: harald