Prospective Porsche Owner - Advice?

[DGriz]

Hi - I'm new to the forum, and not yet even a Porsche owner. I've got a fair amount of auto experience, having restored mid-60's mustangs and Shelbys, and early 70's Alfa Romeos over the past few years.

But it's time to step up to a Porsche. At 6' 2" I'm really too tall for the Alfa spiders, and I am tiring of their consistent lack of reliability.

I have a low purchase budget of $10,000 to $15,000. I'm told that I should be looking at the 1978-1983 911 SCs. While I'm not planning to track this car, I would like a reliable driver with streetable performance.

Good choice? I drove a Targa today, but like the roof line of a coupe best.

Best place to look? I'm wary of eBay, unless I can pay for a PPI from across the country...

As I plan to drive this car regularly, I'm not looking for a trailer queen. Just the opposite. Actually, I'm thinking that a high mileage car that's had the engine & transmission rebuilt as well as regular service would be a good, affordable option.

Thanks for advice you might give this newbie! Dickson

[CarreraDave]

Great pursuit finding a Porsche! You are about to embark on a really fun journey finding your Porsche. I spent a year finding the perfect 84 Carrera. Get copies of Excellence Magazine with the Market report. Also, a prepurchase inspection is a MUST. I would recommend getting to know a local shop. The dealers primarily know the newer cars so an independent Porsche specialist is best. If you can get access to the Panorama website from a PCA member, you can look in there which is also a great resource.

If you are not sure which Porsche you want, I would recommend that you go look at and drive as many as you can. For $15,000 you can find a pretty nice 911SC with maybe under 100,000 miles but you can also get a 944 S2 or 968 which are much more modern cars. Learn the cars, some had issues while others were pretty solid. The SCs are basically bullet proof except for the timing belt tensioners - most have been upgraded but your mechanic will want to check that. Carfax can also give you information on the car's history.

Also, if you are having issues with your height, the non-sunroof 911's have a bit more headroom than their sunroof counter parts.

Have a great time finding the right car for you.

Cheers, David

[DGriz]

Thanks David. There are a couple of local Denver shops that i have contacted for information / consultation.

Thanks for the tip on the non- sunroof cars.

It seems there are a lot more Targas currently for sale. Despite my preference for the hardtop i would still consider the right one. Were more Targas made than cabrios? Is their current value less that the coupes?

I relish the hunt for the "right" car for me. Its a lot of fun! Dickson

[mreid]

Hi, Dickson and welcome! I just went through this process. I've restored, rebuilt, or recreated many cars over my years with Mustangs, kit cars, and street rods topping the list. All along, I always wanted a Porsche, so a year ago I started looking. Long story short, I bought a 1986, one owner, low mileage (38k) 930 with a Ruf conversion for $31k a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to think taking my time and waiting for the right deal has rewarded me with a great car, but only time will tell. So far, I'm thrilled!

I drove it back from Chicago (about 750 miles), but not until I had the local Porsche dealer complete the PPI and fix a couple of things. The inspection cost me $400, but gave me great piece of mind. I figured since I was far away having a certified dealer do the inspection and fix a couple of things was the only way I could go, but the dealer charges $145/hour labor and wanted over $400 to replace the battery and over $400 to replae the front hood struts! No thank you. I did however have the valves adjusted, oil changed, and leak down test performed. Everything else was great!

Take your time, do your research, don't be afraid of ebay just verify and don't do anything foolish. I've bought and sold many vehicles, including this one from ebay with no problems. Good luck with your search and check in here often. I've only been on this forum for a short time, but I've found people to be great and it seems to be a really solid community.

[mreid]

The other thing I wanted to add is: stretch your budget! You should figure that anything you have to fix will cost you 2 to 3 times what it would if it was included in your initial price. Good luck!

[tirwin]

I have an '83 SC. It is raw and not modern but that is what I like about it. You can get a great car for that price, just keep in mind that people say they are $20k cars no matter what for a reason.

Coupe/targa/cabriolet is a matter of preference. They each have their own idiosyncrasies but not a big deal.

There is plenty of advice on this forum on what to look for (or watch out for).

Here's a short (incomplete) list of things to know about SCs:
- check to see if it has Carerra chain tensioner upgrade
- A/C will just knock a bead of sweat off your forehead unless someone has done a modern upgrade.
- Idle/cold start/warm start issues should be investigated
- check for cracked air box
- get a compression/leak-down check
- oil leaks are somewhat common but you need to know what you're dealing with

[plumb4u2]

[QUOTE]Thanks David. There are a couple of local Denver shops that i have contacted for information / consultation.



Thanks for the tip on the non- sunroof cars.



It seems there are a lot more Targas currently for sale. Despite my preference for the hardtop i would still consider the right one. Were more Targas made than cabrios? Is their current value less that the coupes?



I relish the hunt for the "right" car for me. Its a lot of fun! Dickson[/

83 SC was the first year for cabs

[Rapewta]

I used Autotrader on line to find mine. About three months and lots of phone calls.
I bought budles of CarFax inquiries and they helped eliminate some of the Porsches for one reason or another.
With your mechanical skills and tools you should have some fun. Those rear engine 911's are a little more cramped as opposed to the nice big engine compartments of the mustangs.

Good luck hunting. IMHO, try to find one with the least amount of owners.
A good history of service records is a plus too.

[Grady Clay]

DGriz,
Welcome to the Forum
You will find a lot of help here.


Denver has a LOT of very qualified Porsche shops (many my former mechanics from 40-to-20-years ago).
Here is a 2006 list that probably needs updating.
Feel free to PM me with your contact info and questions.

Best,
Grady

[timmy2]

DGriz,
Welcome aboard,
Now that Grady has seen your post, and is helping you make contact with others in your area, you are in great hands.
I would suggest meeting some Denver locals at a cars and coffee or burgers and beer event and talk the friendly owners into letting you sit in, ride and compare the cars you like.
Then go from there.
I tend to look around the country just to see what is available out there and searchtempest for craigslist is great. I saw a very nice looking '78 coupe, within your price zone in San Francisco last night here:1978 Porsche 911 SC

Good luck in your quest.

[DGriz]

Thanks guys. Those are all great suggestions.

Not my nature, but I'm going to try to take my time on the purchase both as I want to save up for the best car I can afford, and also to avoid a purchase mistake.

A friend is close to John Eisenbud, so that will be one of the first shops I visit.

Timmy - That SC in SF is exactly what I'm talking about. But I've got to finish and sell out of a few Alfa projects before I buy...Patience!

[porterdog]

Budget seems low.

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by DGriz

Timmy - That SC in SF is exactly what I'm talking about. But I've got to finish and sell out of a few Alfa projects before I buy...Patience!

LOL, Timing is everything..... The description reads like it was put up for sale just to meet your reqirements...

BTW, My '78 Targa has lots of Headroom, I'm 6'2" as well, and tall through the body. It's really nice to be able to sit up straight when the top is off, as well as when it is on.

If you do go targa, make sure the top is nice and seals well, it's around $1300-$1500 for a top rebuild and to get the right new seals from Dan at Carsincnj. (drop purchase price accordingly)

Good luck in your quest.

[DGriz]

Question on prices and driving impressions:

Over the weekend I drove an 81 SC. Fun car but a bit "raw" and with a "theraputic" (difficult) floor mounted clutch pedal and to my feel a short shifter. Priced at $15,000. Really good ones go for $20,000?

Yesterday I drove a buddy's 95 993 cabrio. Much quicker (3.6 vs 3.0) and while not truly "cushy" a more comfortable driving experience. Value ~$25,000?

My desire is for a reasonably fun but reliable car for mostly city but occasional mountain spins. As we have other small SUVs in the family I would even consider getting rid of my daily driver SUV in favor of a much more fun P-car.

So, is a 15 year younger but still aircooler 993 worth the additional $5000+ - and would you consider it as a regular driver? As reliable and bulletproof as I hear the SCs can be? My buddy's 993 is his daily driver and he loves it.

Thanks! Dickson

[CCM911]

Originally Posted by porterdog

Budget seems low.

Are you kidding? I was thinking that for his budget, he may be able to eke his way into a 3.2 Carrera.

And MREID, $400 sounds really high for a PPI. Unless it was EXTREMELY in depth.

DGRIZ - Enjoy the search. It is half the fun. And if you have worked on Alfas, the Porsches will be a joke. You will be so blown away when you only have to fix things once. LOL! Have fun - That is the goal.

[Smoove1010]

I was where you are last winter. I bought an '87 Cabriolet in February with a good idea of the TLC that it would need. I relied on my general car knowledge, and the research I did (Wayne's books, reading hundreds of forum posts and anything else I could find) and skipped the PPI. The car wasn't registered, so just getting the vehicle to the shop for a PPI would've been an expense. Since the cost of a potential engine rebuild was factored into the purchase price, I took the leap of faith. After 6 months of owning, fixing, driving, I don't regret my decision. I may only need a top-end re-do, but assessing that situation is my project for the coming winter.

When I was shopping for a PPI, the prices were all over the place. In retrospect I may have been able to negotiate a lower price if I went for the PPI, or the seller may have balked, and I'd still be Porsche-shopping. Each of us has to choose where we take that leap of faith. Sounds like you have contacts and resources that I didn't, so you may be in a better position to make a good choice.

Look at and drive as many cars as you can - you'll learn something new with each look-see and with each owner you meet. Keep reading this forum, look for local club events and other car-shows to attend - this is a great time of year to window-shop. Don't be hasty, but be ready to grab that golden opportunity if one pops up.

Good luck!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by DGriz

So, is a 15 year younger but still aircooler 993 worth the additional $5000+ - and would you consider it as a regular driver? As reliable and bulletproof as I hear the SCs can be? My buddy's 993 is his daily driver and he loves it.

Thanks! Dickson

Dickson,

I went through everything you are going through in my decision-making process. I did not desire a daily driver, but the other parts of the requirements were similar.

The SCs are beginning their price spike, as folks realize that they are both good cars to own, and reliable. They are reasonably easy to fix, and are modern enough that they are also reasonably sophisticated - fuel injection, etc. - so now folks see value in them, and are beginning to price them accordingly. I purchased my 3.2 on the basis of the reliability of the Motronic, and the larger power of the bigger motor. BUT, I was leaning heavily toward the later SCs due to Peter Zimmerman's advice in his book. Peter's book was a great resource for me, and I highly recommend it. Wayne's 101 Projects book also made me feel confident about doing repairs on my own, which leaned me a bit more toward the 3.2 cars.

I think, for your price range, you should think seriously about the 3.2 cars, and probably not the low end of the range in the 993 cars. Yes, the 993 range is probably the best of the aircooled cars, overall, but the SC/Carrera range of cars is probably your best bet in-budget. For $25k, you can get a pristine, prefect, low-mile late SC. Or a really good early Carrera. Or a darn good late Carrera. If I had $25k extra to play with, I'd be looking for a G50 Carrera, no question.

Good luck, and welcome.

[SilberUrS6]

1986 911 Porcshe

As a starting point, possibly?

[Grady Clay]

Don’t worry too much about quoted PPI prices.
Here in Denver (Eisenbud, Eurosport, Storz, and many more) will give you a high quote but look at the most important at least expense first.
If there is any indication the car has issues, they stop spending your money.
Some cars can take a ‘look over’ and be sent out the door at no cost at all.

When you come across a really good one – that is the time to spend the $$$ for a through check.
Measure cranking compression and cylinder leak, cut apart the oil filter, drain the transmission, etc.
The other important inspections are for rust and prior crash repair.
There are many good threads on what constitutes a ‘proper’ PPI.
Critical are a knowledgeable pair of eyes.

Best,
Grady

[kyle242gt]

I test drove a $20K 964 C4 with some hotrod upgrades. Loved the driving experience and power, but not the price; I was also concerned about the magic goodies that made the AWD work.

I then test drove, and purchased, a 1980 SC. For me, the lower power, lower weight, lower cost, simplicity, etc made the deal.

Despite the get a PPI party line, I did my own visual inspection and test drive. Chances are, with your experience, you won't either. A recent thread suggests most don't bother.

In your price range, I think you'll be better off getting a nice SC, doing a few upgrades of your choosing, then enjoying it. I know if I'd stretched my budget, I'd be less likely to drive it.