Help me put a value on this.....

[scca_ita]

1976 911 sun roof coupe no accidents/rust

1995 993 motor 41K miles (CA BAR cert ie will smog)
Headers/Filter/sport muffler
915 trans (approx 5K miles on rebuild) center force clutch
22x6x2 oil cooler


SC flares
Fiberglass bumpers
Turbo tail (aftermarket)
Paint/body 8 out of 10 (RED was brown)
Black Sport Seats
RS carpet & Door panels
Stock sway torsion Sway bars
SC brakes
New Koni sports
Strut brace
16x7 & 9 fuchs

Price ??????????????

[Jim T]

$12K?

[skinnerd]

I'd probably go slighty higher.... especially if all the mechanicals are in good shape. Maybe $15,000+.

[pjv911]

I would think even more than 15k. What do you think jack olsens car is worth ? Would you think only 15k as well. Come on lets be real. SCCA_ITA is it located in NY ? If you agree with 12-15k then drop me an email. I would like to see it.

[cegerer]

OK, forget about the 993 motor for a minute. What's a 76 with an "8 out of 10" body worth? Maybe $5k or $7k? OK, now add the motor in - another $7k or $8k (is that what these go for?). Now you've got maybe $12k-$15k. But we all know you can rarely get the full amount back out of the project. Without photos, it's tough to judge the quality of the project and that's a big part of the value.

If this were a 993 motor in a "9/10 or 10/10" early car, the value would be much higher. -- Curt

[silverc4s]

I think the value of a car like this depends almost completely on the verifiability of the history of the component parts, and the quality of the work done to get it together. This is MAJOR SURGERY guys, (Jack O - chime in here if you are around) and if not done properly in a hundred little ways, it could be a POS in a very few miles/months. No guarantees, right?
So I would say that the 76 SR coupe is worth ~ 6-8K in VG condition, and the 3.6 engine is worth 10K if it passes all PPI tests, then what you can learn (ie verify) about it may make it worth more or less than $16K to $18K to you...
The best way to end up with a car like this is to either witness it's birth or be the parent.... otherwise the adoption could become pretty scary.
IMHO, YMMV, of course.

[Jack Olsen]

My feeling would be around 17-18k, if the mechanicals and cosmetics were all in top shape. Maybe more if it was a real stunner in person.

The appeal of a car like this is not its 'restored' status as a 'collectible,' obviously. It's that it's an early impact bumper car (light and nimble) that will have the power to leave any n/a production Porsche -- from just about any year -- in its wake.

But it's also not a race car, per se, because the big displacement will kill it in most groups, classification-wise. It's a fun car that will impress people on track days, and -- again -- outrun virtually all non-turbo 911's. This is a niche market, to be sure, but it's also one that's growing. Look at the number of 3.6 swaps on this board in the last year alone.

The cost of this type of car could easily get up to 30K (or more), if the builder is serious about his mods (the SC brakes and stock suspension components on this particular example points away from that), and still only have a value (on the market) of around 20K.

So, is it worth it to go out and find one of these, already-made, on the open market? Well, yes -- but only if you happen upon one being up for sale (rare) that also happens to have been put together by someone who never imagined he'd sell it (rarer) and also from a guy who knew what he was doing (rarer still). Otherwise, you pay double to build your own, but have the peace of mind of knowing it's not going to fall apart.

If I were in the market for a finished 3.6 conversion, my first stop would be Steve Timmins, who occasionally sells his own 911's to make room in his garage for new iterations. I'd be very cautious buying one on the open market, without extensive documentation of what had been done, and how.

A reasonable assessment of my car, or Thom Fitzpatrick's car, or Bill Verburg's car, might put the market value at only about 20K -- maybe even less. But I think you'd be hard pressed to get any of us to part with our cars for that kind of money. In that sense, it's a little like Bruce Anderson's values for early 911E's and 911S's. Some do change hands at the prices he talks about. But the worthwhile ones don't -- pretty much ever.

Thom Fitzpatrick's 77 3.6 swap does 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. A 2002 911 coupe does it in 5. From this perspective, the 3.6 swap makes good economic sense, in my opinion.

[scca_ita]

All conditions being equal, would a 993 engine bring much more value than a 964 engine? ie is a 993 motor worth the extra $2k.

[Jim T]

Of course, the value can range dramatically depending on the condition of the car and the craftsmanship. There are no pics and little detail given.

However, I hardly doubt that it is in the league of Jack's car. First, because most just are not. Second, its not an early car, but a less desirable mid-year car. Third, its a repaint where the original color seems to be apparent. And paint and body are only an 8 out of 10. An aftermarket turbo tail - not usually on a first class job.

Of course, one could never really accurately value a car based on such limited information. But the resale value of a '76 just isn't that high - generally even for modified ones.

You start to get into the high teens and you start to compete in the marketplace with some pretty decent 80's Carreras, and a lot of other choices. Its just been my experience that "mix and match cars," which can be a lot of fun to build, a blast to drive, and very neat cars, tend to not do well pricewise when they get sold, unless they are real knockouts.

[Jack Olsen]

"All conditions being equal, would a 993 engine bring much more value than a 964 engine? ie is a 993 motor worth the extra $2k."

I don't think so. The 993 engine puts out more hp because its exhaust design is better. This is a non-issue with a swap. Varioram can be a bonus, but not all 993's had it. Check this link for the differences between the different 3.6's, as they pertain to a swap.

[Eric Coffey]

All you need to do is replace the turbo tail with a duck tail, put on some "Carrera" side script decals, and list it at eBay as a "Very Rare 1976 911RS 3.6". You would probably get $40k!

[Don Plumley]

Freefly - spot on!

"Is the whole worth more or less than the sum of its parts?"

Jack's points about Cost and Value are illustrated both on this board and on many classified ad listings: "...Over $30,000 invested in parts alone. $10,000 or best offer..."

From my perspective, the value is ultimately determined by the buyer. Or if you like, market forces at work. I do some M&A work and despite pages of comparables (listings of prior company valuations), the right buyer at the right time might pay 2 to 10x the median figure - or more often than not, will only offer half what the last 10 transactions went for, and if the seller wants to sell, that's the value of his company on that day.

Or perhaps more succintly, "Money talks, bul$hitt walks."

Don

[CamB]

My view is that if it is well done, it could go for a decent price (I don't live in the US, so am wary of guessing what that is).

You need to find someone who is weighing up doing the swap themselves, then you are offering the same outcome at a discount to them.

The reason it has to be well done is because as Jack pointed out, who wants to buy a piece of crap. I would think about a good price for that car if (a) I liked the way it looked and (b) the mods were done properly (eg cooling addressed, proper bodywork (especially the flares), paint really is 8/10). I would run from obvious corner cutting.