Stuck in Reverse with a Twist

mrehrer · 11-03-2012, 04:18 PM

I spent Friday reading any "stuck in reverse/gear" thread I could find. I got my '79 915 in this position trying to back out of the garage on Friday morning.

In many of the threads drivers mentioned recent work on either the coupler/bushings or the 915 internals themselves. In my case I have not made changes to either but had symptoms that caused me to suspect the bushings and order a new set. In the mean time my factory short shift selector rod has begun to rotate (which I read is a characteristic failure). I now have the classic regret for not addressing both of these sooner.

The twist in my case is that while others in this situation have mentioned that they seemed to be able to engage other gears 1-5 fairly easily I can say that effort to get into the 1-2 plane in my case seems pronounced and I can't see much or any coupler rotation when moving from R to 1.

Is the coupler motion (or lack thereof) indicative of simply being stuck in reverse, maladjustment or something worse?

Am I right to assume that I need to get into neutral to remove, reinstall an adjust the coupler? If so should I assume pushing the reverse switch pin back into the case is the right method?

Thanks in advance for your collected wisdom.

Oh Haha · 11-03-2012, 04:25 PM

What I found in my recent experience was that the coupler would move as normal. I could select any of the gears using it, disconnected from the shifter linkage.

My fix was to remove the reverse light switch and push the crazy little pin back into it's home.
Once I felt it disengage the detent, the wheels moved freely.

Once your car is safely on jack stands/lift, try moving the rear wheels both in the same direction. If it's the detent, the wheels will not turn at all. Depending on if you have limited slip, they may turn in opposite direction to one another.

This is how I confirmed my problem(besides the car jumpstarting itself and driving up the tow truck but that's another post.)

BTW-I had not done anywork recently on my shifter linkage or bushings although I did notice it was difficult to select reverse once in a while.

Arne2 · Arne2's Garage

When mine was stuck, I did not have full range of side to side motion. First and second was difficult if not impossible. I'd recommend getting it too where you have only reverse with the lever as close to the neutral position as possible. Then try to push the rod under the reverse switch back into place.

915 prob fixed. Big thanks to Pelican forums and John Walker!

mrehrer · 08:48 AM

Thanks for the quick thoughts. I've definitely read that thanks to Pelican & JW thread. I think I'll try the reverse pin tomorrow.

In case I need an excuse to drain the 915, how long does gear oil last in a street rod? Don't worry I won't ask what to put in it if I drain it.

mrehrer · 12-13-2012, 04:05 PM

Funny how projects of passion/recreation get put on the back burner...

So I finally go to do this today and I find that the initial symptoms seemed to have evolved. When this problem first occurred I found I could only reliably select reverse. I validated this by backing out of the garage a tad but pushed the car in after reconsidering driving to the office in reverse.

Now though I still have the same motion available (which is to say 5 R plane biased) I can't seem to only select reverse. Trying to back up now the car just stalls as it did when I tried to select forward gears before. Is there anything else a novice but diligent enthusiast should do to diagnose/remedy this at home?

schumicat · 12-13-2012, 04:46 PM

did you try to push the pin in? you seem to be aware that is a likely solution but reluctant to do it. I can tell you when I had a similar problem (stuck in R plus problems getting into lower fwd. gears no matter how coupler was adjusted) it was a broken 1-2 slider.

mrehrer · 12-13-2012, 07:04 PM

I should clarify that I was trying to back it onto ramps to push the pin in but since I was unable to get it on the ramps and the symptoms seemed to change I did not proceed.

My assumption was that if it is stuck in reverse I could use reverse and pushing the pin in will put me in neutral. If I can't use reverse at all I'm wondering if I have another issue that pushing the pin in will not fix since my understanding was pushing the pin in just disengages reverse.

Porchcar guy · Porchcar guy's Garage

Sounds like you are either overthinking this or need some outside help.

mrehrer · 12-15-2012, 09:31 AM

If anyone has a suggestion I can try to get only reverse selected I would appreciate your thoughts.

Likewise if I am over thinking this and pushing the reverse pin in would be helpful even if I have more than reverse selected that would be helpful to know too.

One of the other stuck in reverse threads had an owner, apparently luckier than me, who was able to fiddle with shifting out of reverse and successfully got into neutral. I had tried to do the same by selecting reverse and gently shifting back to neutral repeatedly (maybe 8 times). I wonder if this has anything to do with my current problem which seems to be that I am always in two gears instead of sometimes being only in reverse.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

mrehrer · 12-15-2012, 06:03 PM

Every thread is better with photos:

Please help me help the narrow blau hotrod get back to what it loves to do.

Arne2 · Arne2's Garage

If you can get it to where it reverse works (i.e. not two gears, reverse only) with the lever somewhere in the vicinity of neutral, that will likely be the time to try to push the rod in. That's what worked for me.

mrehrer · 12-15-2012, 07:05 PM

Thanks Arne. I'll give that a shot.

mrehrer · 01-12-2013, 11:31 AM

If I am stuck in gear should I be able to rotate the rear tires at all? Mine will rotate with some resistance and spin in opposite directions (915 has LSD).

Ronnie's.930 · 01-12-2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrehrer

If I am stuck in gear should I be able to rotate the rear tires at all? Mine will rotate with some resistance and spin in opposite directions (915 has LSD).

That's interesting as both axles should spin in the same direction with a limited-slip differential.

mrehrer · 01-12-2013, 01:30 PM

Oh great... Can/should this behavior change with damage or other circumstances?

Didn't try firing it up now that all four tires are off the ground but previously it stalled without budging whenever I let the clutch out. So I was shocked I could rotate the tires by hand at all.

Weather has been such that I've not been missing much driving so far but this is starting to look like a more painful repair.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ronnie's.930 · 01-12-2013, 06:14 PM

If you are sure you have a LSD, and your axles are spinning in opposite directions, then the differential is not functioning properly (ie:the clutch plates are worn out). If you search "limited slip" you will find quite a bit of detailed information on this.

I don't think that this would have anything to do with your other problem but do not know for certain.

Walt Fricke · 01-12-2013, 09:49 PM

Stall when clutch let out = stuck in 2 gears.

Push the #$#$% backup light pin in. You won't lose enough oil to worry about.

The diff issue = LSD worn out. Not that much of a problem as things go. Car will work fine without it.

mrehrer · 01-13-2013, 05:29 PM

When I removed the switch I could tell that there was a pin there but already seemed quite depressed. FWIW the reverse lights where not active before I removed the switch. They had been at another point in this process so perhaps I need to try to shift back into reverse and try again?

For those looking for the switch the below picture is taken with the switch removed camera facing toward the rear of the car from just in front of the transmission support.

Mine did not have the boot that is on the exploded parts diagram but YMMV.

I lost about a third of a quart being slow to decide to reinstall the switch hand tight while I consider next steps.

Does tired Swepco look this cheerfully bright blue? Either way I am wondering if the next step is draining the trans and opening the bottom inspection panel.

If I see something bad (eg. chunks of metal) when I drain the trans or open the panel can I still get the car onto a flat bed with an empty 915 by holding the clutch in?

I want to push further into trying to fix this but I don't want to wander into a dead end of my own creation.

Thanks again for all the input.

schumicat · 01-13-2013, 06:37 PM

you seem to have a pathological fear of trying to push the pin in. if you think it is already pushed in, confirm that by pushing it with a punch and mallet. if it doesn't move that means it was already in.

mrehrer · 07:07 PM

Perhaps a fair judgement...

I am scared to damage my favorite possession. Trying to balance that with the ideal of learning to take care of it myself as much as is reasonable. Being a perfectionist about something you have no experience in may not be a healthy attitude.

Genuinely I assumed it was all the way in because (as you can somewhat make out in the photo) the pin is not visible. I could feel the end of it with a finger but it wasn't actuating the switch. How far back can it reasonably be driven? It is quite a bit higher than the floor of the car so I would have to find a way to use the punch on about a 30 degree angle...