Anyone own this 4pt roll bar?

[saxen]

I have been looking at the Patric weld in roll bar for my 911 found here-
Roll Bar Cage 911 930 Porsche Part Distributed By Patrick Motorsports

for the people that own them how was the quality and the overall fit to the car, was it close to the body or did it sit low?

anyone have pictures of it in there car?

thanks everyone

[mfyoung1086]

I would just give them a call. Patrick has always been great to deal with, and if Patrick is building these cages and not subcontracting them, then they are def top quality. I almost bought a bear 911 chasis from them a few years ago, and the craftsmanship was out of this world on that thing, I've never had the room to do that project and I still kick myself for not being it and throwing it in dry storage until I do.... but honestly call them, talk with them, they can send you pics of fitment more then likely. Great ppl to deal with

[unclebilly]

I have one car with an auto power bar and another with a cage using some autopower parts and the rest fabricated from scratch. To do it over, I would probably do it all from scratch.

Here are the things to look for:

1. Is the cage intended for sun roof cars, non sun roof cars, or both? If both, you are giving up head room which may not sound like a big deal until you mount your seat. An autopower bar basically requires that the seat be mounted only an inch or so above the floor to accomidate a 6' driver (the top of the main hoop has to be above the top of the driver's helmet). Most sanctioningbodies require the mid line of the main hoop to be above the top of the tallest driver's helmet - think about it and it makes sense. With the seat mounted low, it is a fine balance between having the car feel like driving dad's car when you were 11 and the thing being safe.

2. How does the thing mount? Do you have to cut or remove your rear interior panels to mount it? For a full on race car, this may not be a big deal.

3. Is it made from DOM or some other form of pipe? Is it 1.75" with a 0.120" wall? You need this if your car is over 2500 lbs for most sanctioning organizations. *** I looked at the website and it looks good here.

4. Can it be added to in the future to make it a full cage? If this is part of the plan, you'll want to pay attention to the angle of the main hoop as it transitions to the floor behind the front seats. It can be a pita to tie nascar door bars into this is it angles in too much. *** it mounts to the sill so this may require door bars with an S-Bend which may or may not be legal.

5. How is it welded? TIG / MIG / Arc? Are the welds continuous?

6. Does the main hoop bolt to the floor or the rocker ranel? The Autopower bar bolts to the floor but IIRC the safety devices cage / bar mounts to the rockers. Both are OK but it is something to consider. *** it mounts to the sill / rocker panel.

7. Will you run a headliner? If yes, you'll be giving up head room - see comments above about seat mounting. *** I think the main hoop will be too low with this bar. It looks like it mounts quite a ways back from the driver's seat (harness bar is straight, not curved).

8. If you want to run a slider, seat mounting can be real fun and you may need to make custom seat brackets.

9. If you have to use a seat brace, how does the harness bar line up with the back of your seat? You want the seat brace to be parellel to the seat slider otherwise it wont slide.

10. does the harness bar line up with the holes in your seat for the harness? I had to add an extra harness bar to one of our race cars to get this lined up correctly.

11. Is the bar FIA / SFI / Club sanctioned? This techart cages that mount to the seat belt mounting points are for looks only (the ultimate poser accesory). They are not safe and nobody sanctions them.

12. You may want to paint the roll bar after it has been dry fitted. There is no point paying for powder coating before you dry fit the cage as some tweaking may be needed.

13. You need to ask yourself (and your family), is the cage for: Looks / To Satisfy Rules for Tech / Safety. Each of these has different goals and the outcome can be quite different.

The next cage I install in a 911 will likely be a variant of the Rothsport Racing cage which appears to be a bargain.

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by saxen

for the people that own them how was the quality and the overall fit to the car, was it close to the body or did it sit low?

anyone have pictures of it in there car?

I have one in my sunroof coupe. It's built very stoutly with very nicely TIGed welds. One of the rear legs needed a shim underneath to sit sit flush, but I'd guess that my car wasn't square, not that the roll bar wasn't built square. I know they have a jig they use during assembly. . . It sits pretty tightly to the headliner and b-pillar.

I won't be home for another week, but can take some pics then if you need.

I've had mixed experiences with Patrick's customer support.

Tom

[saxen]

i would love pictures if you wouldent mind, what year car is yours?
i also am wondering if you can put a 5 point harness on the passanger side of the car, it looks like the bars will be in the way-
the car is a de/weekend car, i was going to do a full cage however i know it wasnt safe for the street, so the roll bar was the next option.
heres what it is going into- the pics are a few months old- there are some new changes, tearing wheel, dash- ect

[Tom '74 911]

As I mentioned in my post above, I have had very mixed experiences with PMS and the support they provide. The roll bar I have from them however, is stout. I believe it is over engineered in terms of what the PCA regs. say about roll cages, so if you install it and ever want to turn it into a full cage to race, you'd be more than covered. As a bonus, the TIG welds are very nice to look at. . .

One thing to keep in mind is that this cage is weld-in, so once you install it, there's no turning back (at least not w/out a large cut off wheel and a grinder). TRE sells a similar one that's even more period correct I think that you can install as a bolt in, so it could be removed at some point. . .

My car is a '74 sunroof coupe and yes, I do have a passenger seat installed w/a 5-point harness too. There is enough room on the cross bar to fit the belts properly.

I believe I have one of the first run roll bars they did. You may ask them if the design has changed. It'd be a bummer to have it arrive only to realize that it's different for whatever reason and the passenger belts won't work - although I have a hard time believing they'd make that design mistake.

I found some old photos on my hard drive to start with. If you need more, I can take some next week when I'm back at home.

Tom

[unclebilly]

Wow Tom, you got your seat low in there. What mounts / sliders did you use?

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Wow Tom, you got your seat low in there. What mounts / sliders did you use?

I cut out the OEM slider mount locations and welded in some new cross members between the center tunnel and door sills. Works great.

Here's some pics:

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

I cut out the OEM slider mount locations and welded in some new cross members between the center tunnel and door sills. Works great.

Here's some pics:

Tom,

Did you move or slide the fuel lines inside the tunnel during welding process? The OEM fuel lines are mounted or located close to the tunnel wall. Welding would transmit too much heat in the process and could damage them. That was a costly mistake on my part for not realizing it could cause during welding the seat brackets. It was months later when smell of fuel odor was observed inside the car. Upon inspection, there was a paddle of gasoline inside the tunnel. Accidental fire could have happened but luck was on my side. And these replacement OEM fuel lines are no longer stock domestically and have to order them from Germany.

Tony

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Tom,

Did you move or slide the fuel lines inside the tunnel during welding process?
Tony

Hi Tony,

I was well aware of that potential issue before I started welding - I planned to replace the OEM fuel lines anyway because they were old and brittle, so I left them in as an experiment, just to see what would happen. After all the welding was complete, I pulled them out and sure enough, there was at least one melted section as far as I can remember (did this 4 or so years ago). So the melted fuel line potential when welding on the tunnel is a real thing!

Tom

[FJ40runr]

Funny this thread comes up now, I've actually just been talking to James at PM about the rollbar this week. Apparently they have fairly recently updated their design (via SW), no longer is there a sunroof/non-sunroof distinction. While I don't like the idea of this from an appearance perspective, I don't doubt that as long as you can make up the headroom in the seat mounts there should be no issue. As far as I can tell this rollbar is a steal, to try and do a weld-in TIG'ed bar would easily be $1500 otherwise...

I think I'll probably be placing an order shortly, I'll update the thread as things unfold.

[saxen]

hey Fj40runr, james must have been refering to you as the other person he had been talking to early this week about this bar- are you going to have it painted or are you going to wait? i was planning on waiting but my local PC's want $250 for paint-

tom thanks for posting up the pictures, from what i can see it looks like its well set and tight to the roof, thanks!

[FJ40runr]

Originally Posted by saxen

hey Fj40runr, james must have been refering to you as the other person he had been talking to early this week about this bar- are you going to have it painted or are you going to wait? i was planning on waiting but my local PC's want $250 for paint-

tom thanks for posting up the pictures, from what i can see it looks like its well set and tight to the roof, thanks!

I think I'm probably going to just spray it myself, I have a handful of things to do so I figure I'll hit it then (plus I've gone back and forth about 50 times about whether I want to clean/spray the interior or just do light carpet..!). Leaning toward a clean respray and just leaving the interior stripped at the moment.

[saxen]

thanks again everyone, took a few hours for the install, overall im very happy with everything.
here are a few pics, let me know what you think

[wildcat077]

That looks nice and clean !
I'll be removing my Das bar and replacing it with an OG Racing 6 point unit over the Winter,hope the install comes out as nice as yours

Cheers !
Phil

[saxen]

thansk Phil,

at some point im sure I will convert it to a full cage- but I should be good for a few more street years

[Geneman]

Indeed!

Question, how did you retrofit the fiel lines in the tunnel? did you use the same paths in the tunnel and get the OEM replacements, or did you run custom SS hose with AN fittings on each side?

I am doing an ITB conversion and wil be doing all fuel lines while all is apart and engine out

email me thhanks Frank

rauscher@wistar.org