Beast Update - Running

Natchamp · 08-16-2001, 11:31 AM

So now that my belt system and other teething problems appear to be coming to an end I am able to report some tuning info.

I have been able to drive it for about 4 days worth of trouble free excitement. The Beast is really coming alive. It absolutely launches in 1st and 2nd gears. I swear it feels like the front wheels are coming off the ground. I have the idle and crusing settings at @ 80% optimal and the load (boost) settings at @ 60 optimal. It will take me a while to get it really dialed in. Under load I am still in the 10-11:1 O2 ratio which I should be able to run up to 12.5:1 with no problem. I am normaly seeing 800-1000 on the exhaust temp going to 1400 under full boost which is @ 11 lbs at this point. There are a lot of variables that I need to play with and keep in mind.

The good news about the Haltech is it completely tunable. The bad news is its completely tunable. In other words, since its so darn flexable you have to start from scratch. This is basically how it works:

Fuel: to determine the duty cycle (how much fuel) for a given situation the Haltech uses 2 main data points to establish the "base" duty cycle. After that it has correction capabilities that further tweak the value and ends up with a final duty cycle for a given 1/100th of a second (or something like that). The 2 main data points used for the calculation is rpm and engine load. So for a given rpm and load a corrisponding base duty cycle is employed. Please keep in mind that for every 500 rpm increment there are 32 points of adjustment across the load range. So just for 0-7000 rpm you have 544 load points of adjustment before you even get to any corrections for air temp, boost, oil temp, etc. Compare that to a carburator with only low and high speed jets!

Ignition: basically same as fuel only for amount of advance/retard.

I think you get the idea. If anyone wants more details just let me know. If I had to guess, I think I'm somewhere in the 300hp range right now with 50-100 left in tuning.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

Greg-slant/cab · 08-16-2001, 02:20 PM

Mark,

Very cool to hear you ironed out the belt problems. You were having slipping problems, can I assume you corrected them?
You must be thrilled to have it on the road and running. What kind of interior do you have in it? Did you go all the way and put the 993 tunnel in it? Keep us all posted.

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

Natchamp · 08-16-2001, 02:56 PM

Zero slippage now, instant throttle response and boost. The interior is basically all new carpet, leather, RS door panels, custon console with Autometer boost, fuel pressure, exhaust temp, air/fuel ratio, voltage, and intake temp gauges. It has white faced 993 gauges, billet aluminum pedals, Momo race steering wheel and shift knob. I couldn't afford the 993 stuff. This was a budget project remember.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

pacmyster · pacmyster's Garage

Budget my A**!!! You are my god!!!

How 'bout a full spread of pics on the completed job??
Pete

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'77 Carrera3.0
Citrus Region PCA
www.geocities.com/pcafaro2000/carrera30.html

Natchamp · 08-16-2001, 06:01 PM

LOL, I just updated the website under "finished" with some more pics. My camera isn't working very well though. I need a new digital one but I can't figure out which one to get.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

Greg-slant/cab · 08-16-2001, 08:27 PM

Mark,
I was wondering if you almost feel a little bit of a let down now that your done. Not on how the car turned out but the fact that your "project" is done. I felt a little weird when I finished mine. It was almost like..."What do I do now?" Of course I drove it but I guess for me a big part of my enjoyment was actually putting the car together. Unfortunately, circumstances forced me to sell, but believe me I am actively planning the next one. Anyone have a pre 74 roller for sale ?

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

Jack Olsen · 08-16-2001, 08:28 PM

Congratulations, Mark. This is a huge step in the history of the project (and in your own personal history, as well, I'd guess).

That thing is equal parts great engineering and genuine art, in my book.

You've done

this, on a budget that the factory could never hope to match.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 08-16-2001).]

Natchamp · 08-16-2001, 09:16 PM

Greg and Jack, thanks a bunch to both of you. I was beginning to think that no one cared of my progress! I am really starting to feel good about the project. I tell ya, after almost 3 years of solid work I am ready for some enjoyment. Its not done though, I still have a lot of stuff I want to do. The good part is now I can enjoy the car, and what a joy it is. There are a bunch of little things I still need to do like sway bars and misc little stuff. I think its always going to be a work in progress to some extent. I do not regret the project in the slightest. I learned an incredible amount and the engine stuff really fascinates me. When I really get the thing tuned I can't wait to meet some fellow fanatics. Anyone live near San Diego?

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

kamikazepilot · kamikazepilot's Garage

Mark,

What color is that yellow?

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Randy
"Dragon"
1978 911 SC

Natchamp · 08-17-2001, 05:35 AM

Speed Yellow

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

No one cares? You gotta be kidding!

There are more than a few hotrodders here that are just drooling (it can't be just me).
Projects are never done. They're not supposed to be. The car is an extension of you and your quest for knowledge, fun, speed, and creativity. Until that stops the project lives. Some of us just take on a slower pace, that's all.

Bob Albo · 08-17-2001, 05:56 AM

You did a fantastic job it came out very nice, nice pic's to, I cant wait to start mine this winter I am very impressed

BOB

wckrause · wckrause's Garage

RarlyL8,

I'm with you on that one. Mark's project is the most amazing thing I've seen on this BBS. If I had the skill and balls to do just one part of his project I'd be in heaven.

Keep the updates coming!!!!

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Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro
MY PELICAN GALLERY

rfix'n · 08-17-2001, 09:47 AM

I think there is a lot who care but stay silent. You must have a counter on your wesite. I'm responsible for several visits and the subsequent keyboard cleaning from the drooling. Keep up the good work!

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Rob Fix
'78 SC Targa

Kurt B · 08-17-2001, 11:10 AM

That is just awesome. I can't wait to see that car. I live in Los Angeles, but a buddy of mine lives in SD, and I'm going to swing down and visit him in a couple of weeks. I'd like to fit visiting your machine into the schedule!
I'll drop you an email when I know for sure I'll be down there, and if you're free for an hour, we can grab some grub and see that car of yours.

I just reviewed the site again...you did this by yourself? This has got to be some kind of record, seriously. I amazed by all the modifications from body work to engine.

I have some advice: have someone make a video of it driving, including sound, and upload an mpg! Now that would rock.

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Kurt B
1984 Carrera Cabriolet
911 Page
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 08-17-2001).]

Natchamp · 08-17-2001, 11:47 AM

Robix, I don't have a counter on my website so I don't know how many people visit it. When I get a chance I should put one on it.

Kurt, thanks a bunch. Yes, I actually have done everything. The only thing I have farmed out was rebuilding the tranny. I would love to do a video but don't have access to one for the mpg. Definately let me know when your going to be down this way. If everything maintains, I should be making a lot of progress on the tuning and driveability by then. The tuning is really the fun part for me. Having a true wide band O2 sensor is the only way to go too. Its kind of wierd having 2 laptops in the car with all the stuff going on. If you are interested in that I can show you how it all works.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Mark,
You have created a wonderful work of art. I have been following your progress through your posts here and your web site. I have to say that I am REALLY impressed.

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Paul
78SC Targa

930fan · 08-17-2001, 12:14 PM

Natchamp,

Fascinating project. Please keep the updates coiming as I am compiling as much info as I can get on a Haltech install on a 911.

I have a few (dumb) questions for you. Firstly, what ignition and fuel curves did you program into the Haltech to get the engine started - did you base it on a 3.2 Carrera program or just guesstimated? Secondly, how do you find the tech support to be like with Haltech? What injectors did you use? Does it idle smoothly and does a/c operation affect the idle? How are you tuning the engine - just plug readings and exhaust temp or are you using a lambda sensor and a knock sensor too? What engine parameters do you use to tune the ignition curve? Why not tune it on a dyno, won't that be quicker?

Sorry if the questions seem a bit dumb. I'm just trying to understand engine management tuning a bit more before I take the plunge, or rather pay my mechanic to take the plunge for me! Btw, here are some tips and theories on engine tuning that I found on the net, not that you need it or anything

http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html

Natchamp · 08-17-2001, 03:02 PM

930fan,
I started with some base fuel/ign maps provided by a Haltech guru I found on the net. There are no Porsche base maps to start with. As long as you start with very conservative settings (rich) this is a fine approach to take.

The support of Haltech is not that good but not terrible either. The US distributors are completely overwhelmed because of all the interest in their systems. It's only a 3 person operation and they spend all day on the phone or shipping stuff. However, Haltech headquarters in Australia is excellent as well as some on-line Haltech programming forums. These secondary resources are invaluable and you can find out anything you need.

I used RC injectors. They are a little expensive but they are really known for their quality and calibration (consistency) between the sets. I am running 440cc injectors.

It idles "good" right now but not excellent. As you might know getting a performance motor to idle is one of the more challenging aspects. Especially with large injectors because when you start getting down into really small duty cycles (to get less fuel) they don't react well sometimes and become more erratic. This is why some people and race applications use a staged mode where a smaller set of injectors are for lower rpms while a larger set of injectors are for boost Another common problem is when decelerating the motor just stalls. It doesn't do that any more and since I have a wide band O2 its just been a matter of tuning. I don't have ac.

I am tuning the engine in several fasions all of which I primarily use the O2 and EGT as points of reference. Tuning for idle and cruise situations is just a matter of having a buddy drive the car while I see what the motor is doing and adjust accordingly. Keep in mind that I see everything that the motor is doing via the Haltech and the gauges. Crusing is similar but gets harder because the bar that is being used at a given instant changes so fast and often. Tuning for load (boost) is harder because its impossible to keep up with where the data points are on the maps. You just need to adjust the maps, try it and then readjust. Ok, all of that is one way now here's another. My Haltech has a spare input function which I can connect my O2 sensor up to. The Haltech can then record any engine parameter I want (including the O2). So I just hit the record button, go for a ride, come back and download the data. The data is recorded every tenth of a second so I can see exactly what the engine did and tune accordingly. I will still go to a dyno for the very fine tuning and get "the numbers". However, I came to the quick conclusion that investing the money into a true wide band O2 was worth it because it will let me learn more, take my time and get it right and enable tuning as I modify the engine in the future. The O2 sensor is a true 0-5 volt wide band which is really accurate with no latency issues. You can not tune, to this extent, with a normal 0-1 volt sensor.

A dyno would be quicker but not quick. To really get a complete engine management system tuned right takes time. I figured I could spend a fortune on the dyno or just buy some equipment and actually end up with just as good, if not better, job doing it myself.

There are a bunch of different parameters the Haltech can take into consideration for both fuel and ignition. Go to www.haltech.com and download the datasheet for the E6K. You will see all the fun stuff we can play with.

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Mark
The Beast
mark@hargett.com

orbmedia · 08-17-2001, 04:47 PM

Great work Mark, it's great to see it all come together. I was checking out your page from time to time always hoping to see an update. I bet alot of people were doing that.

I really want to try one of these custom injection setups too. I was thinking about Motec but I plan to look into the Haltech based on your recommendations and pricing.

Is this possible: To make several "maps", let's say an economy map, a valet map, an autocross map and say a few different track maps. Then you "download" or whatever that map into the EFI whenever you want to change the drivability and performance characteristics. I don't know if such a thing is practical or even worthwhile but it would be cool.