'78 SC Elephant Racing Suspension Rebuild

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by JP911

The Boge strut changed in '86. The biggest concern is usually getting the correct insert, as the design changed. I wonder if the spindle also changed and, if it did, you had a previous owner who replaced one of the struts at some point. Regardless, this should not be a big issue since you have shiny new struts. I replaced my Boge's with raised Bilsteins similar to yours and never had to deal with any spacers; just the normal bearing setup.

Edit: just looked at the pics of your struts and noticed that the spacer isn't there on your new struts. Oops!

Haha right! I'm missing a spacer, so I ordered a pair of fresh ones. The PO did mention to me that he replaced a strut, but like you said, I've got a new pair of Bilsteins, so I'll be good to go with a set of spacers. It won't slow down the project...plenty to do (including rebuilding four calipers and doing the entire rear end of the car.. Oh yeah, and I already have rear bearings, so that job will take some time too.

And hey, it's after 12 here...I can have a beer while I work (it will stay nice and cool in the garage

[Craig_D]

Here's the difference between the hub/bearings that had the spacer, and the one without. I'm replacing all of it..

[rwilner]

I just finished this project over the weekend, on my 84. It took me close to 2 months to complete the project only because I was waiting for parts to get powder coated and life gets in the way...

I had an almost identical list of parts, except I also did the trailing arm bushings and rear wheel bearings. My TA bushings were really ok, so if you're considering replacing those, I'd say evaluate them first because it's a PITA. I might also suggest you replace your tie rods with turbo tie rods "while you're in there"...it will add maybe 2 hours to the whole job.

Your work area looks very clean and organized. If you have kids, I hope they're paying attention!

Rich

[K Sykes]

Other one I would do is the steering rack bearing replacement. Not many dollars, but makes a huge difference, and is good for a long time.
SC Steering Rack DIY Bearing Replace

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by rwilner

I had an almost identical list of parts, except I also did the trailing arm bushings and rear wheel bearings. My TA bushings were really ok, so if you're considering replacing those, I'd say evaluate them first because it's a PITA. I might also suggest you replace your tie rods with turbo tie rods "while you're in there"...it will add maybe 2 hours to the whole job.

Your work area looks very clean and organized. If you have kids, I hope they're paying attention!

Rich

Hey Rich, thanks, it's pretty organized, but more needs to occur. I do have Turbo tie rods in there, so I'm good to go on that front. I also do have the rear bearings and the banana arm bushings. I plan to do all of them, but I'll take a good look before I plunge in.

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by K Sykes

Other one I would do is the steering rack bearing replacement. Not many dollars, but makes a huge difference, and is good for a long time.
SC Steering Rack DIY Bearing Replace

Not a bad idea. Did yours show signs of needing new bearings? I've done the upper steering rack bushing and since that, the steering has felt great.

[DaddyGlenn]

the bearings in my '78 were toast. cheap and easy rebuild...

[Craig_D]

Well this afternoon, I removed one torsion bar from the left control arm. It was stuck on the end cap pretty damn well.

Then I moved on to the rubber bushing removal. A few things that I've learned here; 1. my micro bench vise it too freakin small!! and, 2. use a lot of heat to cook that rubber bushing. It smelled like a dumpster fire in my garage until I opened the door...then it was cold. I guess I learned another thing...being cold sucks. I went to Home Depot and picked up a propane radar dish style heater. I'll be using that starting tomorrow.

The torsion bar had some rust and possible wear. The rubber bushing had the typical deformation. Glad to be moving forward.

Some more pics of today's progress:

[Elombard]

Why did you decide to go with rubber replacement instead of poly bronze or the new sphericals?

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by Elombard

Why did you decide to go with rubber replacement instead of poly bronze or the new sphericals?

I decided to go with the rubber because the new rubber is far superior to the old stuff, and because I've tuned cars/bikes to a point where I no longer enjoyed them as much. Its tough because this is my first 911, so modifications are based around balance....kind of using new technology (WEVO shifter is a good example, and new rubber) and what the factory would do if they could create a good street car today. I'll do some track days, but the majority of my driving is on the wonderful mountain and canyon twisties in Colorado, so I want to make sure the car works best on those roads.

Chuck and I discussed this for a while and he thought this would meet my goals very well.

[ozracer]

Enjoying watching your rebuild.
What made you mix Bilstien shocks though HD on the front and sports on the rear?

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by ozracer

Enjoying watching your rebuild.
What made you mix Bilstien shocks though HD on the front and sports on the rear?

Hi ozracer, thanks. The Sport Bilstein shock is a stiffer dampened shock than the HD. I already had the new Sport shocks on the back, so we matched the spring rate of the torsion bars to the Sports. Then, the front Bilstein was totally rebuilt and valved specifically to match the rear shocks and the new torsion bars up front. Chuck and I talked about the rough weight of the car, the sway bars, what tires (and wheel sizes) before he revalved the fronts, so it's really a matching set. Does that make sense?

I know a number of people who mix HD and Sports depending on the mods on the car, and the weight, and in my case it's pretty well matched to the spring rates and sway bars.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

I decided to go with the rubber because the new rubber is far superior to the old stuff, and because I've tuned cars/bikes to a point where I no longer enjoyed them as much. Its tough because this is my first 911, so modifications are based around balance....kind of using new technology (WEVO shifter is a good example, and new rubber) and what the factory would do if they could create a good street car today. I'll do some track days, but the majority of my driving is on the wonderful mountain and canyon twisties in Colorado, so I want to make sure the car works best on those roads.

Chuck and I discussed this for a while and he thought this would meet my goals very well.

I have put ER Polybronze on every 911 and 930 (4 so far) I have and would never go back to rubber. All you need to do is see once how effortlessly and in-plane the front and rear arms move compared to (any) rubber. Five minutes with a grease gun every oil change and forgetaboutit. Also would go ER monoballs in the trailing arms and shock towers to eliminate changes in geometry there also, but that's just MHO..

[Demetri]

These are great pictures! I hope to be doing the same soon, and this thread is going to help! Happy New Year!

[911SauCy]

I know this is a bit off topic, but I can see a nice exhaust set-up I am unfamiliar with.

I'm trying to make a decision on header/muffler combo for my '78SC 3.0...

Any info is greatly appreciated

[Abby3.2Carrera]

Craig,
When you order the spacers make sure you get a pair of rubber o rings goes on the spindle before the spacer. Just a heads up and very nice build. I'm about to reassemble my car as well with a set up like yours.

[Craig_D]

'Mornin guys and Happy New Year! Thanks for the encouragement, I'll be heading out this afternoon to work on the other bushings and will post some pics.

911SauCy, here is a link to my custom exhaust build: Craig_D's Dual Cat SC Exhaust

I mocked it up using SketchUp 3D software and then worked with Hank Padilla at Hanksville Hot Rods to create a light weight, high performance exhaust that also passes 50 state emissions. Love it! ...and it sounds like a hot rod 911 should.

Abby3.2Carrera, thanks for the tip. I ordered this guy with the spacers.

GaryR..hmmm interesting. Well I've budgeted for rubber bushings and am committed to seeing it through because one of my concerns was additional NVH. I'm trying to strike a balance between additional sportiness and ability to enjoy the car on bumpy tarmac in the mountain passes. Plus I've gotta keep within my budget as I have a lot of winter projects to fund.

[RWebb]

I also have the polybronze on my street rod - BUT Steve Weiner has posted that most of his customers prefer the Elph. rubber - and I doubt that they are 'ordinary' 911 drivers.

You should be fine.

Here are impressions from a back to back test of 2 cars over the same roadway:

Yet Another Boring Rgruppe Car – Part II, Suspension

[Craig_D]

Hey RWebb thanks for that link. Interestingly, I had read that before and it was one of the reasons I'm going light on stiffness for bushings and torsion bars. I'm really interested in feeling the car respond to these more mild upgrades before jumping into a set up that makes the road manners harsh. I guess I'm aiming at having some rally car feel/compliance so that I can go quickly over real roads and not skitter wide over the washboard. I thought your findings were great to consider, so thanks for your post!

One question for you; I'm toying between the rubber strut uppers, and the sealed mono-ball uppers. Any thoughts on the merits vs trade offs here?

- Craig_D

[RWebb]

I used new rubber strut uppers & am happy. I know I've seen some comments before on that but don't have a link.

I've found that what P AG did with the RS cars is a pretty good guide for me. The RSR cars less so.

What is good one one road will change on another; same for the track; same for a road trip with a passenger...