993 Non-Varioram or 3.2 SS Conundrum

usera · 05-25-2016, 07:15 AM

I bought GaryRs 79 to 73 RSR backdate three years ago and have finally gotten to the business of installing the 3.2 SS that was detailed here:

Semi-completed "73" 911 RSR Project based on 79 SC

The car builder has offered me a 993 non-Varioram from a 95 with 90K miles for $5K plus the 3.2 SS that GaryR rebuilt. I trust the builder completely, but want a sanity check that this is fair to both parties. Can I get the Pelican Brain Trusts thoughts on this?

Car will be 80/20 Street/Track.

jpnovak · 05-25-2016, 07:36 AM

Depends on the build spec for the 3.2SS. If its mostly stock except for the 98mm PC set the 3.6 may be better.

Since it is twin plugged I bet it has higher compression and better cams. I personally would go for the 3.2SS as it would would have better character to what I would want out of the motor - higher rpm zing rather than brute torque.

froggert · 05-25-2016, 09:27 AM

Ditto to what jpnovak said. Plus you'd be trading a rebuilt motor for one 21 years old.

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

I'd ask myself how I will drive this car. The 993 (lots of bottom end torque) will make for very nice drivability without having to hang out around 5k-6k RPM. Power-wise there might not be that much difference but the with the 3.2 you probably need to be up there in RPM to fully realize its potential.

aston@ultrasw.c · aston@ultrasw.c's Garage

993/3.6 motors have been selling for around $15K if they include a DME, engine wiring harness etc.

How much is the 3.2SS worth?

I suspect the cost of installing the 3.6 will be much greater than the 3.2.

MST0118 · MST0118's Garage

It seems that you can find comps on comparable non-vram engines for sale with similar mileage. The question is probably how much could you sell the 3.2 SS. If you can sell that motor for $14 to 15K, then you might have enough to purchase a similar 993 engine outright. If you can only sell for about 10K, then it seems like it might be a fair deal. I'm not clear whether 3.2 SS was recently built up from the bottom or what the status. If low hours on a new engine, then maybe it's worth as much as a used 993; hence, no compensating payment would need to be made.

Otherwise, it's a personal decision. I like the idea of having a reliable 993 engine that I could hot rod at a future date to make even more power (realizing there is a cost to that).

usera · 05-25-2016, 03:00 PM

Thanks so much for the replies. It has been very helpful.

AllardK3 · 05-25-2016, 07:15 PM

I would vote for the 993 3.6. I had a 3.2 carrera and switched to an 81sc with a 993 3.6. I can not even compare the power difference and torque difference. The 3.6 powered SC is fantastic!

Canada Kev · 07:50 PM

A built 3.2 SS is a different animal than a stock 3.2 Carrera engine.

You might get lucky with an unknown used engine, but your 3.2 is new/rebuilt already. Ask Jeremy how he feels about a good used 3.6. Be prepared for some, uhh, colourful language I think...

Duc Hunter · Duc Hunter's Garage

Having driven my light weight 3.6....I say go that route. I can literally put it in 5th gear for a 45mph road.....roll along at 50 for a few miles, make a sweeping right had and go up and long on ram and merge at 70mph...never gong past half throttle. the torque of the 3.6 just changes the way the car drives not eh street for me. Street is where you want low & mid-range torque. Stand on it and rip it through the gears on these trees full throttle, I rarely go to redline because th car just pulls so hard. If I do...its even faster. Just my 2 cents, and you paid nothing for it....and I have no experience with a 3.2SS. I relive they are short stroke motors, which means you must wind them to get power. For me, torque is king on the street.

Josh D · Josh D's Garage

How long will the 915 live behind (in front) of a 3.6 with all that extra torque if not modified? Just something else to consider.

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh D

How long will the 915 live behind (in front) of a 3.6 with all that extra torque if not modified? Just something else to consider.

It needs the single piece bearing retainer and the later style side cover. Then it'll be fine. Mine is holding up for 40k miles already.

panzerfaust · 05-26-2016, 05:10 AM

keep the 3.2ss, the 964 maybe better in nearly every category except engine music but the short stroke motor would feel more in line with the long nose body. thats why you bought the car in the first place right?

uwanna · 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh D

How long will the 915 live behind (in front) of a 3.6 with all that extra torque if not modified? Just something else to consider.

I installed a brand new in the crate 915/70 tranny when I put a 964 3.6 into my '80SC
24yrs ago. It still runs and shifts like it did the day I installed it, now 40K miles later!
The 3.6 upgrade made for the most pleasureable 911 experience of all the 911s I've owned!
Oh that torque!! Incomparable!

3rd_gear_Ted · 3rd_gear_Ted's Garage

If you intend to DE or TT also, the 3.6 torque and HP you get from corner to corner on the track is awesome. The drive ability traits of a 3.6 SC puts it in a league of its own. I can understand the 3.2 view point, but put your right foot in us 3.6 converted SC's driver shoes, press the pedal and then check your personal endorphin response

Mehoff · Mehoff's Garage

I would never even consider the trade, but I'm a 3.2 snob and feel there is nothing better than pounding on those things (feel, power, sound) at high RPM's. That said, not sure I'd enjoy lumbering around in city traffic, where the "plain jane" 3.6 would thrive.

I think a fair trade is even swap and he installs the 3.6. Keep in mind you can find a replacement basic, used 3.6 engine in about a week. To replace the 3.2ss will probably take you over a year of searching or shelling out $25k+ for a fresh build.

Duc Hunter · Duc Hunter's Garage

Owning a 3.2 Carrera and a 3.6 conversion both, I love to pound them both, love the sound of both (slightly different but both amazing).......but after driving my 3.6 with a yet to be broken in (so still clunky) 915 tranny.....when I go back to my beloved 3.2 the car feels slow, peaky, and you must row the gears to get anywhere. Mind you it is not any of those thing, and I love its speed and power before I had the 3.6 conversion car. It just feels that way by comparison.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Here's a built 3.2 in a light early car compared w/ a stock '95 non vram 993 3.6, same car, same transmission, same tires

Canada Kev · 05-27-2016, 07:10 AM

Interesting graph, Bill. It clearly shows the acceleration is way down on the 3.2 until the revs (speed) come up a bit. The acceleration of the 3.6 is clearly significantly higher at any speed in the same gear.

What's that little flat spot about half way through the rev band in each gear? The 3.2 is fairly obvious, but the 3.6 has it at roughly the same spot but slightly earlier and it's no where near as obvious as the 3.2.