Doing first DE next month. A couple questions:

[adamnitti]

1. They recommend I get my car teched at an authorized service center. Is this something I can do myself?

2. What should I do to my car to get it ready? It's going to be very hot, most likely here in Atlanta in the middle of August. My brake fluid and tranny fluid have less than 1,000 miles on them. Should I change anyway? Anything else I should do to the car beforehand?

[pbs911]

I am not an expert but I will share my 2 DE experiences.

AS for the tech inspection, they will not go over your car with a fine tooth comb to determien it is sound. They basically spend about 2-4 minutes and check to see the battery is tied down, seat belts or in, your helmet, tire wear, brake light, front wheel bearing play, etc. Your car should be in top mechanical condition. If there is any doubt take it to your wrench to have it checked over after telling him what you are going to do. The tech inspection may not turn up things like craked CV boots, improper shifter alignment, work shocks or torn sway bar mounts.

I change my brake fluid the day before an event. Even if the car is sitting, the fluid can pick up some moisture. New fluid will give you some piece of mind too.

Most of all have fun.

[304065]

If your club is like ours, the tech inspection is NOT something you can do yourself, it has to be done by a professional mechanic or one of your club's authorized tech inspectors. Our guys don't intend this as a slight to anybody's skills, just another pair of eyes before you go flinging it around the track at 130 mph.

There are numerous threads in the archives about prepping for DE- ranging from simple fluid changes and tire pressure checks to all-out prep with a roll bar, harnesses, big tires, uprated brake pads etc. If you brake fluid is new and the system is clean, you shouldn't have to change it but I would defer to your local mech on this one. There are a couple of good checklists out there, including a good one on Hayashi's www.nsxfiles.com web site.

My advice: make sure you have driver comfort items like sunscreen, water, caffeine, etc. and leave the car bone stock for the DE. 98% of your improvement in the first few events is driver-related, so focus on preparing yourself and you will maximize learning and fun.

Man, I still remember my first DE: my instructor was one of our region's quickest club racers, who would coach me through the turns, and then in the straights, say, "Get the white boxster! Get the grey turbo!" Nothing like being coached to race by a racer. You are going to have an awesome time. . .

[LeeH]

When I did DEs with the Peachstate Region it was required that the tech form be filled out by a qualified mechanic.

It's good that your brake fluid has been changed. It still might be worth bleeding them again before the event. It's a unique feeling to be coming down the back straight of Road Atlanta at 130, hit the brakes and THEN realize that your car has experienced a bit of fade. Ask me how I know!

[GeorgeM]

Just remember, you're likely getting your self into something that you will not be able to stop yourself from doing again. You will get hooked, especially if you have a good instructor that stresses the fun.

All the PCA regions I've run with in my 20 some events require an authorized service place or the region's tech chairman stamp on your tech form, which you should have received with your registration paperwork (you can get most forms online as well on the region's website). Some regions have a tech session a week or two before the event where you can get it done for free. Some places charge an hour's labor. Regardless, you should get it done.

If the brake fluid is that new, you probably don't need to change it, but at least bleed it before the event. If you're not running Super Blue or equivalent, then I would change it and use that stuff. Good chance the stock stuff will boil, especially this time of year in Hotlanta.

If your brake pads aren't at least 75%, take an extra set (especially if they're stock pads). You'll be amazed how quickly stock pads get used up on the track.

Use the tech form as a guide, it will list things to check. Potomac region has a good one: www.pcapotomac.org

Most of all... HAVE FUN!

[adamnitti]

this is great info. thanks so much. i do have ate super blue in my brake system right now. i will definitely at least bleed again.

can you talk to me more about brakes? someone mentioned race pads... should i get a set for the d.e. or just use my stock pads?

what will be easier on my rotors?

[Howard Nelson]

Gentlemen,

I really can't believe the responses so far to this post. All the mechanical ability and Porsche knowledge on this board and nobody thinks they can tech their own car! I do, and it's always been acceptable in the Chicago region (in addition to the check at the track). I certainly am not arrogant enough to think that I know all there is to know about my car, or even as much as many of the people on this board, but I have been working on my car for several years. To be honest, when I apply the brakes coming into turn 5 at Road America, I find it comforting to know that I was the one who just checked the wheel bearings. After all, it's not my mechanic who has the most at stake at that moment. That said, you obviously have to be very comfortable with your own knowledge and skills. If you're not sure, try watching what your mechanic does when he techs your car and see if he does anything that you couldn't.

I would definately stick with stock pads initially. Stock Porsche brakes are excellent, and as someone else mentioned, there is tremendous improvement to be had just by getting experience and instruction before you need to do anything to your car. Good luck!

[ErVikingo]

Adam,

I don't know what your local region requires but, I have driven Road Atalanta many times and have taken part on PCA DE's as instructor, student, tech, head honcho of flags, ....

If there is one I can say is you can never check too much. Remember the tech check is for your safety and that of your instructor, fellow drivers and flagmen.

No matter how recently you have bleed or replaced your brake fluid, at least bleed them again. Check your pads carefully as they will take a beating they (or you) are probably not used to. Depending on which type of pads you have (and brake venting mods) you could/should replace them. Then again this depends a lot on your ability, style, weather, ....

Check the brake lines, master cylinder, since you are under the car, check torque on a-arm bolts, mottor & tranny mounts. Check your seat belt bolts for proper torque and check the belts for condition. Check the front trunk for loose items as well as the interior and engine compartment.

Check for proper oil level and bring extra oil. Check tire pressures and condition. Not a bad idea to check your wheels for soundness. Make sure your tailights are operational, .... The battery must be solidly mounted also.

Most of these things wouldn;t be checked by the average mechanic but we are talking safety here and I'm assuming you have never teched your car before.

THen, bring plenty of fluids for yourself a good hat and sunblock. Well, I don;t mean to scare you off safety is job #1. Also, it blows to make it to the track to be "kicked out" for a simple tech item.

Personally, I check my car all over before every race weekend.

After this, enjoy DE's are awesome and Road Atlanta is one awesome track. It helps to look at the track map in preparation since it is quite long and you don;t want to bother about learning the track while you are there. Believe me, there will be a lot of things to keep you amused.

Juan

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Howard Nelson
Gentlemen,

I really can't believe the responses so far to this post. All the mechanical ability and Porsche knowledge on this board and nobody thinks they can tech their own car! I do, and it's always been acceptable in the Chicago region (in addition to the check at the track).

All the regions I've run with require a tech by a tech inspector or garage. While I feel competent to tech my own car (or rebuild it's engine) it nice to know that car behind me has fresh brake fluid and can stop before he rear ends me...
-Chris

[304065]

Howard, I think it's an overstatement to suggest that "nobody here thinks they can tech their own car. " I think most of us probably COULD, especially if you look at the type of items that appear on the typical check list- nothing that your average Porsche owner with a floor jack couldn't accomplish.

The third-party tech is, for most of the PCA regions, a requirement for Driver's Education, which some people don't like, but serves a purpose of having someone else besides the owner take a look at the car. Some allege that it's for the more sinister purpose of keeping the local shops in business, but considering that most of them will do it for free I don't put much stock in that theory.

Ironically, the DE program requires a tech inspection before each event, but the club racing program does not. So if I want to lap single-file, I need a tech, but if I want to race door-to-door, three wide, I don't. That's somewhat of an oversimplification: my race car has a log book and a documented history that is three inches thick, and I check, among other items, the torque of every nut and bolt in the suspension and brakes before every race, but I am not required by the rules to have a third-party mechanic do anything. The scrutineers figure, correctly I think, that along the way to acquiring a competition license one also acquires the common sense to make sure the car is up to spec.

In another twist, my revion allows DE instructors to self-tech. This presumes a level of mechanical skill similar to driving skill, which is usually, but not always, the case. . .

Adam, in my experience the stock pads throw lots of dust but are fine. After a few events you may want to go to something a little better, like the Porterfield R4S, a great DE pad (but not as sticky as the stock when cold). Then when you really become a hot shoe get yourself a set of Pagid Orange. I'm using Pagid Orange up front and OEM in the rear (the poor man's adjustable brake bias) with Castrol SRF fluid (518 F wet boiling point, $70/liter) and I have NEVER experienced any fade, even in a 30-lap race. But there are as many opinions on pads as there are stars in the sky, so check the archives on this one.

[Howard Nelson]

Yeah, I was expecting some response to that post... John, I was responding to comments like "...tech inspection is NOT something you can do yourself, it has to be done by a professional mechanic..." Apparently the Chicago region is different from all others, so I see your meaning.

Getting your car teched by a mechanic is fine (in fact my suggestion was for Adam to have his mechanic tech the car the first time, and observe what was done) but some people I suspect can and do tech their own cars better than a mechanic would (especially for free!).

John is right about stock pads - they will produce a LOT of dust, but they are also easier on your rotors - I would still stick with stock for a while.

John, that is an interesting solution to adjustable brake bias! Just curious, were you correcting a bias problem, or do you just not notice a difference in keeping rear stock pads?

[304065]

Howard, it looks like we are in violent agreement on the issue of self-tech! Frankly I would prefer to self-tech if only to avoid trailering to a mechanic prior to the actual DE event. I plan to haul out to Road America in August just to see what it's like to drive on a four mile track!

On the "brake bias" the stock pads have a lower coefficient of friction than the Pagids (when HOT) so they tend not to lock up before the fronts. The PO tried Pagid Orange in the rear and said they tended to lock, particularly because we're using Hoosiers, which have a low polar moment of intertia which is good for acceleration but prone to lockup if you really stomp 'em. Where it really gets funky is on the autocross course where the brakes are cold, and the stock pads stick better than the Pagids!

Adam, you can pretty much disregard the above for now-- just remember that you want the curve of brake pressure vs. time to look like a bell-- squeeze gently, building up system pressure and transferring weight to the front wheels, then squeeze HARD, hauling the car down, then ease off, allowing a smooth return to a level attitude by the time you turn-in. Doing it like that will maximize your braking performance and allow you to get the most out of whatever setup you have. Another tip that your instructor will tell you is, don't set the parking brake after a run group-- the parking brake will melt to the hub! Try to coast to a stop and leave the car in gear with the ignition off to hold your position in the paddock. Also, after the checkered flag, try to do one lap using as little braking as possible consistent with safety-- this will allow your brakes to cool down, so that the rotors don't warp when you stop. The calipers act like a heat sink on the rotors, so if you fly into the hot pits and shut down, the rotors will cool at different rates around their circumference, warping them eventually.

Good luck! Keep the questions coming!

[adamnitti]

wow, john. thanks for the great track lesson!

next questions:

are these track events a lot harder on tires than an autocross?

if i get another set of pads, should i run the brand new pads on the track, to allow for a greater threshold of wear?

i currently have 2 sets of wheels/tires right now, but to be honest i've been using the same wheel/tire combination for street and autocross, mostly because i really like the sizes.

[jpachard]

Not to add fuel to the fire but another reason for Tech inspectin is liability issues. Having a third party involved and having an official stamp from that party removes some of the responsibility from the club organizing the event should there be an incident or god forbid, a lawsuit.

Cheers, James

[Rick Lee]

As a budding tech inspector for my local PCA Potomac region, I can say our tech inspections would most certainly discover cracked cv boots, worn shocks or sway bar mounts (especially sway bar mounts, since one of mine just cracked off). It's always best to have a few sets of eyes go over it. I always check for dry half-shafts, cracked rotors (especially in cross-drilled ones), uneven brake pad wear, rotor lips, hanging throttle, funny smells, egregious leaks, evenness of tire wear, too loose or too tight wheel bearings and a bunch of other little stuff. You'd be amazed at what some people show up in, thinking their car is fine. All kinds of stuff starts popping up when more folks start looking at it, who don't see the car every day. We don't want to be hard-a$$es. But a little problem for the owner can become a big problem on the track for others. Doesn't your local PCA chapter have a tech session the weekend before a track event?

[304065]

Adam,

As a novice I would say that autocrossing is harder on the tires than DE. The ironic thing is that you really aren't trying to find the absolute limits of acceleration, braking and lateral grip in DE-- at least not until you progress up several run groups- you are trying to focus on learning the line and then smoothness, smoothness, smoothness which will allow you go faster. So you probably will not experience massive tire wear at least initially.

But in an autocross, if you do it the way I do it, you are out there making MUCH greater movements of the controls- making smooth but dramatic steering changes, standing on the brakes at the end of a segment, sliding through corners in controlled understeer or deliberately lifting off the throttle to induce massive TTO to get the rear end to come around. Also, in most autocrosses I've done, I've spun at least once. All these things, typically done on a parking lot surface with the consistency of 40-grit sandpaper, have a tendency to shred the tires and heat-cycle the heck out of them. To say nothing of the spins, which will put nice flat spots on the tires. So I would say that autocrossing is a lot harder on tires than the first few DE's. Once you get a set of Hoosiers and begin turning the edges blue from heat distortion, that's another story. . .

That's the great thing about autocrossing-- if you tried to induce TTO on the track without first having practiced it at low speeds in a parking lot, the results could be catastrophic. Ditto a spin. The first time I ever spun on a big track (Mosport) I had done it so many times at low speed that the recovery (both feet in) was automatic and no damage was done (although I did have a "discussion" with the chief instructor. The chief instructor did the majority of the talking in our "discussion!") Autocrossing allows you to find the limit, to actually feel understeer and oversteer, so that when you feel these things coming on on the big track you can immediately take corrective action and keep the car under control. I do not recommend trying to practice high-speed understeer or oversteer on the track initially.

Pads: The tech inspectors will consider your pads worn out for track use if they have 50% of the pad thickness remaining. This isn't to say they are useless for street driving-- just that the reduced thickness allows for greater heat transfer from the rotor into the pistons and into the fluid. This boils the fluid earlier. As a result, the thinner the pads the more likely you are to experience brake fade. So if your stock pads are getting thin, you might consider putting in a new set for the track.

Don't forget to bed them in. . . check the archives for the proper procedure, but basically, with the new pads in, you want to do multiple high speed stops until you begin to experience fade, then drive a few miles and let them cool down, the repeat the multiple high speed stop drill until the pedal nearly goes away, then drive around at moderate speed for 20 minutes or so until they properly cool down. This procedure will boil the chemicals out of the new pads and polish down any surface imperfections so that you have optimum contact with the rotor. If not done, it is not uncommon for the pads to "chunk" or break apart in pieces, or also leave a sticky "glaze" on the rotor surface that must be mechanically removed before the new set of pads will work properly.

[mm86911]

Adam - all good advice here - particularly from john_cramer in regards to autoX and DE comparison. Having done a bit of both I really think a few autoXs should be mandatory before a DE just to learn reaction to extreme conditions at low speed. I will continue to do both as I believe the combination is great for honing your overall skills - reaction at autoX and smoothness at the track. Of course a few hundred hours on the PS2 won't hurt either!

Recommend your first couple DEs you don't do anything to the car except regular maintenance. Run street tires, chaulk the edges to monitor pressures (most likely run normal pressures), and stock brake pads.

Have your pre-tech done at Performance Imports. Another set of eyes on the car won't hurt and it's only an hour labor. Plus those guys setup at the event and are there to support regular customers - great benefit.

BTW - did you already receive the papers confirming you're in?

[Sarah]

Our local porsche club requires you have an authorized shop do a Tech Inspection and have it signed-off & turned in before you can participate. Just for safety, I would have it done in addition to what you are able to do yourself.

I've only done one DE weekend so far and used the street tires (new parellis w/ few miles on them) we already had on. They said they were OK for the "type of driving & speed I would be going." But, they said if I was planning on doing more events I should get different wheels and tires (which we will do if I/we sign up for another one).

Good luck and have a good time.

[addictionMS]

on a non technical and non Porsche specific note...check out the school tips at this link.

http://www.bellmotorsports.com/

there is some great advice on what "you" should do as well


Jim

[Lothar]

Adam,

My best advise is to do all the prep exactly as described in the registration info from the club. They know what they are doing and are serious about keeping you safe. The extra set of very experieinced eyes is a must in my book.

As far as your car is concerned, check tires, brake pads and anything else that you can easlily check yourself. Check for play in the wheel bearings too. A good tech inspection should pick up the things that you might not be smart enough to notice yourself. I know this is true in my case.

Regarding brake fluid, the critical factor is time, not miles. Brake fluid absorbs water which lowers the boiling point and accelerated brake fade. Many people bleed brakes at the track during a weekend. If it hasn't been done within three months, flush them. Use a high performance fluid like ATe SUper Blue. THe good stuff has the highest boiling point. Finally, do not buy silicone based fluid unless that is what you've been running. It will not mix with the typical glycol based fluids like Super Blue or normal street stuff. Keep brake fluid away from paint as it eats paint like nobody's business.

Finally, do not install five or six point belts in your car if you don't have a roll bar!!! Do not buy a harness bar! You are better off with the three point belts from the factory. In the event that you would roll the car and the roof gives way, your head would be the highest point in the car. With a three point shoulder belt you can lean sideways to duck. Five points keep you sitting straight up.

Get ready to get hooked. You are in for the time of your life. Be safe and have fun.