Yet another: First timer buying advice for a 911 (SC or 3.2?)

[PushingMyLuck]

Today, I got the idea of buying a Porsche 911.

Timeless styling.
Something that I would enjoy spending money to repair, since I plan to keep it a long time.
A weekend driver that is DIY friendly. Something I can tinker with as I learn more about cars. Are 911's DIY's well documented like BMWs?
Plus, there are 3 local "exotic" indy mechanic shops in my local area, so that base is also covered for "heavy duty" work.

Some extra power on tap is nice, but I drive like a middle aged adult, and don't need the finer points of performance.
Most any "sporty" car is plenty fast enough for me.

I'd rather pay more up front for a killer specimen (lots of service already done, garage kept, PCA type enthusiast owner, etc)
This is ALWAYS a better deal, in the long run.
The last car I got had $8000 of work done in 3 years, and the seller recouped almost none of it. Great deal for me!
So, maintenance history and buying from a properly funded enthusiast owner carries huge points for me (compared to only looking at 1987-89 3.2's)

If I bought a well-sorted $20k used Porsche, I would still set aside another $10k for repairs in the first 2 years.
But, I still don't want a mechanical nightmare. In fact, if 911's are repair nightmares, tell me now, and I'll gladly just stick to my BMW.

Before getting sucked into the nuts and bolts differences in the various models,
can anyone share some high level insight into owning a 911, in general?

This would be a 3rd car, and not a DD, but I do hear they are a fun car to drive, and seems to have a rep as a “bulletproof” car that is somewhat DIY friendly...

Any major caveats?
More or less reliable than people think?
Major limitations of the car?

Is there a good "Before you buy your first 911" link somewhere?

[PushingMyLuck]

Pelican Parts: 911 FAQ Version 2.2

Ok, based on this article, there are some concrete reasons to go with the 1984+ 3.2 Carerra over the 911SC.

• His answer to this question was simply "if you can afford it, get one with Motronic Fuel Injection" (those'd be the ones built in 84 and after).
• The 1984 and later cars used oil-fed tensioners which solved the problem.
• 911SC exploding rubber clutch

[PushingMyLuck]

So, I've done some quick reading on "starter Porsches". The best bet in terms of cost/value/reliability seem to be:
1) 911 SC (1978-1983)
2) 911 3.2 Carerra (1984-1989) 1987+ has the G50 transmission

How come the 1989-1994 Porsche 964's are almost NEVER mentioned?
They look almost identical to the SC and Carrera 3.2s.
What are the main differences?

It seems like the preferred advice for the first timer is to look for a 1987-1989 Carerra 3.2 with the G50.

But, is there some "forum groupthink" that clusters around this very specific model and dismisses other perfectly decent options?
I don't need the "idealized" 911 package combination. Just a good one. Or at least, not the nightmare one.
3.0L vs. 3.2L? *I doubt I'll even notice a performance difference.
915 vs. G50? * If the 915 gearbox feels fine to ME, then it's ok to buy? *I doubt I'll be heel-toe shifting like a racecar driver.

For example, would it be a mistake to pass up a killer example of a 1984-1986 911?
Also, is it a mistake to dismiss the 911SC entirely?
If I find a killer specimen of a 911 SC, would it be silly to pass it up?
Or do I just not want to go there yet, as a first timer?
Is it best to avoid a car that is a full decade older than the 88-89 ?

Also, it seems like the 911 SC's are significantly cheaper than the 3.2's
I have seen decent looking SC's in the $10k range, but not the case with 3.2's.

[PushingMyLuck]

Browsing fun begins.
It's funny to see posts here from 2004 with people buying 911's for $13k.
I guess these cars have appreciated over the last decade.

Now, it seems most sell on Ebay from $17k to $25k
porsche 911 in eBay Motors | eBay

It looks like this was a good deal? $18k for a enthusiast owner 911 with a bunch of recent service done. That is the type of car I like to buy:
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 Coupe G50 Incredible Condition $18,900

I am going to keep reading these forums for more advice.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Before getting sucked into the nuts and bolts differences in the various models,
can anyone share some high level insight into owning a 911, in general?

This would be a 3rd car, and not a DD, but I do hear they are a fun car to drive, and seems to have a rep as a “bulletproof” car that is somewhat DIY friendly...

Any major caveats?
More or less reliable than people think?
Major limitations of the car?

Is there a good "Before you buy your first 911" link somewhere?

There are books you can buy. Go to Amazon and use "Used Porsche" as search parameters. I bought a book by Peter Zimmerman and one by Randy Leffingwell. Both books were useful in helping make my decision. And what the books said have been borne out by experience. Buy and read those books. Then, come back and focus in on the questions the books didn't answer. That's where these guys really do have it all.

And yes, a good 3.2 is going to run you in the mid-upper 20s. A good driver-quality car can be had for a bit less.

[KNS]

The SCs and 3.2 cars can both be very reliable, having owned both I'd pick the one in the best condition with a nice maintenance history. That doesn't mean you can't have a surprise big bill if something breaks, it'll happen with any 30 year old car.

The trick now is going to be finding one...

The 964 and 993 are also fantastic cars but a bit pricier to purchase and maintain. I own a 993 now but really miss the simplicity of my old SC.

[RDM]

If you're coming from BMW ownership, here's one great bonus: The 911's cooling system is dead reliable. Compared to the BMWs I've owned, my 33-year-old 911 (a dry weather daily driver) is more durable, more reliable, and more fun.

[Boricua21]

I guess you can get the best of both worlds and get a 3.2-Powered SC like mine. I do think though that if you can afford the G50 models you will be just a touch ahead. Just remember the common wisdom that a nice SC is way better than a clapped out Carrera 3.2.

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by RDM

If you're coming from BMW ownership, here's one great bonus: The 911's cooling system is dead reliable. Compared to the BMWs I've owned, my 33-year-old 911 (a dry weather daily driver) is more durable, more reliable, and more fun.

No coolant changes , blown head gaskets or timing belt replacements.

[James Brown]

i owned a SC and the carrera's 3.2 hands down are a better engine due to the motronic engine management. the rest of the car is she same. The 964 and 993 are totally different cars, look the same but suspension and engine/trans. very different.
from sc to carrera to 964 to 993, they are all evolutionary advancements. some good things some not. get the best one you can afford

[chrisbruck]

I had the exact same dilemma before I bought my '87 3.2. Was looking basically for a solid $15-$20k car regardless of year. The only thing that concerned me on the SC is the CIS injection. Normally it works great and is very reliable but a Porsche race shop I consulted with said they can be finicky to make right and fewer people these days really know how to work on them (the CIS system). Being a "self" mechanic, I opted for the simpler Motronic cars. Stumbled into a beauty '87 G50 and never looked back. Paid $17.5k one year ago for a great, solid car. The G50 is very nice to shift too... drive both and decide which you can live with. It may lack the "character" of the early 3.2's but hey, shifting is a no brainer in it.

[Busta Rib]

Pound for pound, I don't think you can go wrong with any SC, 3.2, or 964 if it is well-maintained and sorted. The key differentiators fall along the spectrum of comfort/livability. The older the car, the less creature comforts you will have. If you don't mind a less-refined suspension, mediocre HVAC system, and finicky transmission (915), the SC could be the perfect car for you. It gives the most raw driving experience and feels most connected to the road without filters of the group you are considering, IMO. The 3.2 just improves on everything over the SC, but gets slightly softer. And the 964 is the best balance of old-school 911 and modern comforts (AC, ride, power amenities, etc).

Given that this is your first 911, I would recommend a 964. It is still an amazing bargain and only going up in value. You still get old-school 911 look and feel and greater livability/comfort. Best thing you can do is go out and drive each model and you will quickly hone in on the one that is right for you.

[roblav]

With some minor changes, the chassis and running gear is quite basically the same from 1964-1989. Evolutionary refinements in interior, engine, and transaxle are the primary changes, along with increased weight. The 964 I had felt like a much more major change to Porsche 911 tradition than between any of the other 911 models I had. Agree with Motronic over CIS. But... using that logic though, don't overlook a 964 C2 with improved Motronic as well as larger engine, dual plug, and IMHO, a better suspension. It depends on what you want!!!

[James Brown]

oooooooh slippery slope. 991 so far is the best

[davidcz...]

I am a newb to 911 cars. I had an SC and LOVED it, but the CIS was a huge challenge to get to run right, AC and Hvac were really weak but they worked. If tons of mini projects on a car don't bother you then you will have a true drivers car. I think a well sorted 74-77 is a great buy too.

If you get a car with CIS, consider switching to carbs.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

It looks like this was a good deal? $18k for a enthusiast owner 911 with a bunch of recent service done. That is the type of car I like to buy:
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 Coupe G50 Incredible Condition $18,900

I don't think these cylinders are meant to be re-sleeved. Also, valves are never hand ground.

Guessing the sales person got a little windy and misinterpreted (edit - probably without evil intent) information but these are the things some reading and questions here can help equip you with well founded questions.

[PushingMyLuck]

I think there are enough votes to avoid the CIS, and stick with 3.2 from 1984+, as per that link above. I will need to try the G50 vs. 915 shifting and see if it matters to me. Thanks for the advice so far.

[911dean]

While there is some validity to the CIS system, it would be foolish to pass up a good SC. It would be foolish to pass up a good Carrera with a 915. Any good 1978-89 911 will put smile on your face and is worth owning.

I personally wanted a 915 car and ended up buying a '84 Carrera. I've never had a car I liked more. If I had to do it again, I'd like a 78-79 SC with no options.

Dean

[James Brown]

sure, a SC with carbs or EFI would be great, 915 with a fresh rebuild would be great. for your first car with 100k miles on it, 3.2/g50 unmolested would be the benchmark. Unless your a real good 911 mechanic with some leftover cash

[r-mm]

I searched with an open mind (SC/3.2/G50/915/964) and am glad I ended up with a 3.2. It happens to be a G50, think a 915 would have been a-okay. Glad I don't have to fiddle with CIS and can chip my car if I want to, etc. 964s are stunning cars, I drove several, but there is more that can go wrong with them. Not talking about AWD, am talking about ABS, HVAC head units, etc. Wouldn't rule them out. Doesn't hurt that 3.2's are looking like sterling stores of value right now. Have fun, drive tons of cars.