911 Red relay socket has partially melted...

[pkfrdh]

the socket got hot enough sometime in the past and is partially distorted. The relay still fits in the socket since it stayed in it till it cooled off. It did not melt down so much that it does not still function. The wiring behind the fuse panel does not show any heat damage.

What would cause this heat damage that would partially melt the relay plug, but not melt the wires leading to it? It is as if the relay plug is the only thing that got hot. I have no recollection of it happening while I have owned the car, but I'm not possitive it did not happen while I was driving it. Could this be an intermittent occurrence? Should I expect a major meltdown? There was a time in the past that my fuel pump was working in an intermittent fashion. It turned out to be a loose connection to the fuel pump. It has not acted up since I tightened the hot lead to the pump.

Also...can a red relay be used in one of the black relay positions or would that cause a problem (in case I had only a spare red relay and a black relay burns out)?

Check out the picture of the red relay's partially melted/distorted plug....

Thanks for any input.

JGL

[Joeaksa]

JGL,

Heat is a byproduct of a poor connection, corrosion in the wires or the like. A clean and solid connection with good wiring will not let this happen. You need to check the wiring to the socket and I would put a new relay in its place just in case.

If the wires to the socket are not melted and in good shape then my best guess is that the relay was not making a good connection to the female terminals in the socket and that the heat occured here.

If you do not have a new (or extra socket) pls let me know. I may have an extra in an old wiring harness and can send it to you. You will probably have to splice a new one in anyway to get it back up to snuff.

Joe

[pkfrdh]

Joeaksa,

I see you are in Phoenix...I have relatives there. Four cousins and their families scattered all around the four corners. Glendale, Scottsdale, Chandler and Phoenix. My cousin Leonard Bafaloukos is a really good Dentist if you ever need one.

I really appreciate the offer for the spare relay plug. Does it have to be the specific red relay plug or any plug like the ones that the black relays plug into? I noticed there is a big gauge red wire behind the plug that the red relay plugs into. Do you know if a red relay can be used in place of a black relay in a pinch? I know it should not be the other way around. A black relay should not be used to replace a red relay.

Thanks again for the offer and e-mail me for the address or any questions you have.

My e-mail address is jglsbca@juno.com and I live in Santa Barbara, CA.

JGL

[cary]

FWIW, last week in Lelands post. Warren mentioned that if you carry only one spare relay. It should be red.
It can be used in both locations.

[Joeaksa]

JGL,

No idea at all if the relay sockets are specific or not. Would need Warren or JW or other guru's to give us some help here.

I found a 911 that was being scrapped and was going to be crushed in a few days. The shop gave me unlimited access to the carcass and I pulled out most of the wiring harness. I like to have factory wires if possible when doing repairs as you have the color coding correct and sockets, bulbs, connectors as well.

If we can find out what the situation is on the socket and make sure that mine will work, will be happy to dig down in the "spare parts" cabinet in the garage and donate one to you.

BTW, where does your brother practice? Am looking for a dentist, just moved to town in January! I am in the NE area, next to Scottsdale and Deer Valley Airport. Sounds like he can also recommend a good Greek resturant! I spent a lot of time there and miss the Retsina and food...

Thx,

Joe

[Doug Zielke]

The only difference (aside from the color) between the red and black relays, is that the red ones have a diode in the circuit path.
The diode blocks the backside EMF from inductive loads (like the fuel pump motor).

But the burnt relay socket is the issue here......
Just like the miserable, ancient fuses , the relays above them need some TLC if bad (hot & resistive) connections are to be avoided.

You can buy a little tool (electronic supply house) to clean the female pins in the socket. And the relay pins themselves respond nicely to an ink eraser. Finish the job with a *thin* smear of copper grease on the pins, and re-insert the relay.

The fuse and relay panels on these old cars offer next to no protection from the environment, so expect troubles if you don't do some maintainance.

[Joeaksa]

Doug, so the relay socket is the same on all the units?

If so then I will look for spare socket on my extra harness and get it headed out West.

JGL, Sounds like the ones I have will fit your car. BTW, forgot to tell you about my charges on this part. Its one beer from you when and if we ever meet, and of course I get to buy the second round!

Thx,

Joe

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Doug, so the relay socket is the same on all the units?

According to the part number, they are all the same. The pin-out used depends on the application.
Spare sockets with pigtails already attached are available from your local stealer-ship.

[john walker's workshop]

the sockets and their wires are sealed units. sockets for the different applications have different wire sizes, colors, and quantities of wire. best to splice in the correct one, so you can color match, and have the proper gauge wire for the job. usually the sockets can be shaved with a razor blade to clean up the surface, and the pin sockets cleaned. the relay pins have a criss-cross cut which can be spread out a bit with a sharp pocket knife for better contact into the sockets. the fuse board is often overheated, with loose gray colored terminals at the fuel pump fuse, and crispy, corroded wiring. the 10 fuse board needs to be replaced if this is evident.

[cary]

John, as long as your here. Is there an easy ( non-destructive ) way to get the top off a black relay ?
I still want to make a jumper for my DME idle adjustment.
I have one laying in my tool box drawer, and I keep meaning to ask you.

TIA

[Joeaksa]

John,

Another question. After looking at the pic of the melted socket above, do you feel that it can be saved or needs replacement?

I personally would put another one in there, splicing it (solder the connections) into the old wire bundle. It looks pretty "crispy crittered" for me.

Thx,

Joe

[john walker's workshop]

shave it flush with a razor first. if the metal sleeves look ok, reuse it. they may need cleaning. then make the relay fit tighter by spreading the pins. if there are no loose obvious connections, the fuel pump may be drawing too much amperage. are the fuel pump fuse terminals still tight and brass colored, or are they burnt gray?

just scratch around the base of the relay with something sharp, until the top comes off. for the DME idle adjustment, you can just use your finger to close the top contact on the relay as you set the speed.

[Wayne 962]

This damage was done without the current relay that you have. Something happened previously (with a PO) and trashed the red relay too. No way can you damage the socket like that without melting part of the relay (in my opinion).

We sell brand new relay sockets:



Click here for the link:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/images/new_images4/90161233300.JPG

if you want a new one...

-Wayne

[jyl]

After reading this thread I got interested and went to take a look at my car.

*All* my relays are red!

And it runs fine too.

I have no idea why the PO did this, but it was pretty funny. Except that I won't remember which relay to pull out when parking in a bad neighborhood.

[pkfrdh]

Great response to my question on the relay socket! I've been reading all the great posts and no sooner do I have a question, someone else asks it and it gets answered! I'm sitting here totally entertained and amazed. Thanks everyone!

I will be checking all my fuse contacts for oxidation...so far they all look like brass colored contacts w/ copper wire screwed down to them. Must be due to the fact the car has always been garaged since I've had it for the last sixteen (16) years. John W's copper grease suggestion is new to me, but I will look for it. I know the phone company uses a silicone grease to protect all the tel. wire contacts to minimize their maintenance and call backs years after installation of home services.

Joeaksa...it is my cousin, Leonard Bafaloukos that is a great Dentist in Phoenix. He lives in Glendale, but I'm not sure if his office is in Phoenix or Scottsdale. He is listed in the yellow pages. The office is at 3902 W. Camelback Rd. The tel. # is (602)841-5473. If you go see him, tell him his cousin Joe in Santa Barbara says hi. His dad (died five years ago) use to own a notorious cafe in downtown Phoenix called the "Busy Bee". From what I hear, it use to get pretty wet and wild after hours. They moved it to Scottsdale and made it into a much bigger formal Greek restaurant. Since then his father passed and the family sold it. I'm not sure if it is still owned and operated as a Greek restaurant or not. He would know. We all still get together when we can for Greek Easter dinners when possible.

Wayne...thanks for the input. It seems logical the overheated relay plug would have involved the relay as well. I don't know if the loose lead to the fuel pump may have caused all this distortion of the heated plug or if it was a coincidence I noticed it after I fixed the fuel pump problem by tightening the contact at the pump. It is still the same relay though. Also...I noticed the time stamps on the posts are off by more than 12 hours. What happened? I see posts dated for tomorrow! Oops!...spoke too soon...time stamps are already fixed....nevermind.

JGL
'77 911 Carrera 3.0