No more Ate Super Blue brake fluid?

[drtyler]

Saw this earlier today and have not seen it mentioned. Anyone else heard this?

http://hooniverse.kinja.com/braking-news-ate-super-blue-illegal-for-u-s-distribut-1153557989/1154188522

[Joe Bob]

It Took The US Government 15 Years To Realize This Brake Fluid Is Blue


Just is just so FU##### stoopid. What a bunch of asshats.....

[A horse with no name]

Well I went to do my brakes
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Oh, whatever it takes
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Yes, I bled them dry
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
It about made me cry
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Oh, but I knew what to do
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Fill 'em up with Super Blue
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
But the DOT came 'round
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Told me to get outta town
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Now I don't know what to do
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Obscure law, screw you!

Blue brake blues

Yes, blue brake blues

Blue brake blues

Oh, blue brake blues

[vash]

i wont miss the dyed blue brake fluid reservoirs.

the gold stuff is very good as well..

[porschenut]

I have an unopened liter of Super Blue sitting on my shelf for sale. $150 + shipping. PM me if interested.

[KTL]

Govt, lawyers, et al. are dumbfuchs who just find crap to complain about and regulate

[NathanR]

This is a joke right?

FWIW, ATE is the house brand at my local auto parts store...blue and all.

[Kidasters]

Stupid.

The blue and gold fluids are the same, except for color. That said, it was nice . I alternate between the two, because the color change helps me know that I've completely flushed the system.

This is sooooooooooooooooooo dumb.

That said, I just ordered 10 cans of it. Time to hoard.

[rs6er]

Originally Posted by Kidasters

Stupid.

The blue and gold fluids are the same, except for color. That said, it was nice . I alternate between the two, because the color change helps me know that I've completely flushed the system.

That's what I do, um, did.

[ossiblue]

Well, this topic is now alive and well on Technical, PPOT, and PARF!

Just to get things in the proper perspective, read the letter sent by Continental closely. According to their notice, the fluid was "determined not to comply" with the federal regulations--the implication being that the feds came down on them. What the letter doesn't say is that those regulations, regarding color, have been on record for over forty years and that any fluid manufacturer must know them if they seek DOT approval. ATE blue has never been DOT approved. This is not news. ATE chose to not seek DOT approval because it wanted to market a blue brake fluid. It was their choice.

Among other things, not being DOT approved means it cannot legally be used in road vehicles by new car manufacturers, dealers, and service departments, but that doesn't mean it can't be sold or used "off road." It also means that the company cannot claim that using the fluid will not harm the vehicle in any way. There is nothing to indicate the feds banned the blue fluid beyond the limits of any non-DOT certified fluid. This appears to be a decision by Continental, which has yet to be fully explained.

If you actually read the DOT certification specs (and I wouldn't wish that on anybody) one major reason for the different colors is because of the incompatibility of particular brake fluids with different brake and hydraulic components. Using the wrong type fluid in a hydraulic system could cause component failures. This may be the reason for the "safety recall" claimed in Continental's letter, though it's about fifteen years too late. However, identifying it as a safety recall puts the federal law behind them if someone wants to sell the blue fluid anyway. Still, I'm another one who wants to see the actual federal demand that the fluid must be taken off the market.

What is news is that Continental made a business decision, possibly to avoid any liability (car accident due to brake failure, blue fluid found to be in system, lawyers swoop down and sue Continental for marketing a non-DOT fluid, etc.) Was this prompted by the feds? Who knows. What is known is that the fluid was not ever approved, the manufacturer knew it and the feds knew it, and the lack of certification was solely due to the color, not its properties.

[Kidasters]

Ossi -

Good points. I'm still going to hoard anyway.

[DRACO A5OG]

Oh no another sad FRENZY. :-(

Well, I got tired of the blue staining the reservoir so I stopped using it anyways, too :-)

Oh well, for you other Kats, I guess you will be off road testing allot, huh ;-).

I bet Conti will raise the price due to all the publicity it is getting "get the illegal stuff", Coke for your Brakes...

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Kidasters

Stupid.

The blue and gold fluids are the same, except for color. That said, it was nice . I alternate between the two, because the color change helps me know that I've completely flushed the system.

This is sooooooooooooooooooo dumb.

That said, I just ordered 10 cans of it. Time to hoard.

Originally Posted by Kidasters

Ossi -

Good points. I'm still going to hoard anyway.

You summed up most reactions very succinctly.

IMO, the overreaction is reflected in your "This is sooooooooooooooooooooo dumb" comment. Who made the dumb move? Is it dumb for there to be regulations on fluid colors to help prevent catastrophic failures of vehicle components? Is it dumb for Continental to want to sell a blue brake fluid, knowing it won't be DOT approved? Is it dumb to then pull that fluid from the market after fifteen years?

Is it dumb (or savvy)for Continental to imply that feds forced the fluid off the market?

There's more to this story than the letter sent to ATE distributors and blogger rants against the feds.

[Kidasters]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

You summed up most reactions very succinctly.

IMO, the overreaction is reflected in your "This is sooooooooooooooooooooo dumb" comment. Who made the dumb move? Is it dumb for there to be regulations on fluid colors to help prevent catastrophic failures of vehicle components? Is it dumb for Continental to want to sell a blue brake fluid, knowing it won't be DOT approved? Is it dumb to then pull that fluid from the market after fifteen years?

Is it dumb (or savvy)for Continental to imply that feds forced the fluid off the market?

There's more to this story than the letter sent to ATE distributors and blogger rants against the feds.

Ok - why is this "sooooooooooooooooooooo dumb". Yes - it's dumb to have a regulation that says that, because the fluid is BLUE it is not the same as a fluid that is amber, and is "illegal" to use. Even though the chemistry and physical properties (other than color) are identical to the other product.

Personally, I like the blue product. A few years ago, when the wife's car had a blown strut - I couldn't tell if the fluid on the garage floor was brake fluid or strut oil. If it had been blue - that would have been much easier.

So, why does Conti sell blue fluid? Dunno. Marketing? Racer's like it? I feel cool using it? Who knows. They do. It's good stuff.

Is it dumb to pull it off the market? From a business sense, no. People that understand enough about the fluid know that ATE200 gold is basically the same thing. And, in our wonderful litigious world, they can now have barriers to try and make it so that they won't get sued.

So, my reason for liking it is basic. When I do fluid swaps, I know that when the fluid in the bleed bottle turns from blue to gold (or gold to blue) that the line I am bleeding is flushed. It's simple. And because of a very stupid regulation on the color of fluids, I now need to stock up, to delay my pain for a few years.

[Marc Bixen]

Well, Super blue has never been street legal in the U.S., and in fact it could never be sold in Florida. Soooo here's the reason. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and that means it absorbs moisture. When it absorbs moisture it turns a darker color. Clear or gold to brown. So this does not happen with super blue. This is a safety factor built into brake fluid, the darker it gets, the more it needs to be changed.(Most people including dealerships don't pay attention to manufacturers recommendation) IT WAS NEVER STREET LEGAL IN THE U.S. It's a racing brake fluid for people who know to change their brake fluid regularly. All you diy'ers never paid attention to this. Anyway, ATE Type 200 is the same stuff in "Street legal" gold. By the way, how many of you listen to Porsche recommendations, non-ABS cars flush every 3years, ABS equipped cars flush every 2years, AND brake flex hose (you know the rubber ones that some guys change to stainless) should be changed every 10years or 100,000miles WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

[Kidasters]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

It's a racing brake fluid for people who know to change their brake fluid regularly. All you diy'ers never paid attention to this.

Not true.

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

Anyway, ATE Type 200 is the same stuff in "Street legal" gold.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

By the way, how many of you listen to Porsche recommendations, non-ABS cars flush every 3years, ABS equipped cars flush every 2years, AND brake flex hose (you know the rubber ones that some guys change to stainless) should be changed every 10years or 100,000miles WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

More than you think. Some of us actually know how to wrench. And have done this religiously on the entire fleet (and the motorcycle) every 2-3 years.

Ask the 964/993 guys about the toothpaste that comes out of the high pressure pump on the hydraulic systems of their cars if they let this slip.....

Marc - not everyone here orders take-out. Some of us know how to cook. Just sayin'.

[BGCarrera32]

While ossiblue is on point, the overreaction is generated by a long list of stupid DOT b.s. not the least of which includes 85 MPH speedometers to reduce speeding, those idiotic motorized shoulderbelts from the 90's (ala "passive restraint") to force you to wear a seatbelt- but not a lapbelt making it worse- the list goes on and on.

So while it was Conti's decision, not much of a stretch to blame the government.

[KTL]

The blue thing is a complete load of BS in terms of it not allowing people (actual semi-knowledgeable people, not the average everyday nimrod that has no business messing with their brake fluid) to determine if it needs to be replaced. Sure the clear & amber fluids turn dark when its well past time to flush. Blue does the same thing- it gets murky and changes color. If anything, blue would prompt people to change it MORE frequently due to the early onset of darkness and murk.

That said, its all irrelevant IMO. Because the unfortunate truth is the VAST majority of roadgoing cars NEVER see their brake fluid flushed. While that is certainly not optimum for maintaining good brake health/performance, the brakes still keep working fairly decent. I'm certainly not endorsing that sort of treatment for one's brake system, because it's the most important system on the car. But it's an unfortunate reality that brakes are severely neglected by most vehicle owners and yet they still work with that crappy fluid in there.

[175K911]

I think what's really sad is that our wonderful bureaucrats in DC must legislate the color of brake fluid.

That being said, I personally never knew that Blue was never DOT approved, and was never even submitted for approval. This little know fact put a LOT of people in jeopardy, it would be really easy for a dealer to deny warranty claims for non-street legal fluid in the car, or for an insurance company deny coverage in the event of an accident if they discovered non-legal brake fluid in the car. I think Continental/ATE was really shortsighted (and I'm being kind here) in not making this more widely known.

Not a big deal for me, I stopped using this stuff decades ago because I could boil it easily. And in an early Audi of mine it made my clutch master cylinder squeek, and I'm told it was the blue dye that caused this problem in a lot of Audis and still does.

[Quicksilver]

For some reason the government has positioned itself where it thinks it is supposed to "save us" from anything that has simply the possibility of injuring someone.

The part that is unbelievable to me is the shear quantity of adults that have bought in on the idea that it is not just "ok" but is a "good idea". Children need someone to tell them what to do. Conversely if you never let them get in the position to fail and take the responsibility they never become real adults. The government seems to have taken the roll of keeping people from having to assume responsibility for their lives.

Life is not safe. It has never been safe. Living a "safe" life is a child's dream and is just boring. Plus almost all of the time "Safe" is a feeling not a condition.
And most importantly: Life can NEVER be safe as it has a 100% mortality rate.
(And to the contrarians: It doesn't mean you have to "live dangerously". It means to be an adult, weigh risks, never take chances for someone else without an extremely serious look at it, and butt out of the decisions that make up other people's lives.)


Back to ATE Super Blue...
The fact that government can ridgely regulate (often predatorily) with no regard for sense and that people let it slide is really disappointing and an indictment of public opinion.