Installed 3.2 and it won't start

[cabmandone]

I'm going to update this post as I do new things so if you read it, check back for updates. I will post once the engine is running and what finally got me up and going provided that day comes. I hope it comes sooner than later.

I just finished installing a 3.2 in my 84 Cab. The engine came from a car a guy was making into a "race car". He had gotten the engine from a wrecked 911. The engine has sat for a very long time. It is not seized and I have drained all oil and installed new and have turned over and primed the oil pump.

so here's the story.

Before installing the engine I installed new Speed and Reference sensors, checked plugs and they looked good. Tested plug wires and they checked good. DME/ECM is supposed to be new. DME relay came from another car. Will be installing a new one tomorrow. I also checked the valve clearance using the angle feeler and also did the backside method just for fun. All but 3 valves checked within spec. Engine turns over but will not fire. I have purged the fuel lines and the car has a new fuel filter installed.

What I have checked:
Tested fuel pump with jumper at DME Relay and in fuse panel. OK
Tested DME relay by powering the coils and checking contacts with Ohm meter. Again, will replace with new but it checked OK.
Checked ground at trans to chassis and cleaned. Checked ground in front of the fuel filter on the left side engine compartment. Checked ground in the trunk and checked ground on manifold.
Checked for spark. Ok
Checked voltage at the top and bottom side of the fuel pump fuse OK.
Just now reversed wires on Speed and Reference sensors. Engine is now trying to fire but has not fired yet.
Checked for injector pulse with "noid" light. Ok.
Checked for stuck injectors using a 8.6 volt battery. Each injector "clicked" which would indicate to me they are operating. Flow is unknown at this point but they should be opening if there is a clicking sound when power is applied.
Checked fuel pressure at fuel rail test port (engine off, pump running with jumper) 36 psi (Good according to Bentley manual)

Things I'm going to check:

1.Removing plugs to get #1 cyl to TDC on compression stroke to verify distributor is installed correctly. I don't know if it was removed or not. When I checked valve clearance, I obviously indexed Z1 to distributor pointing at or very near #1 cyl. But again I'm not sure if that was compression or exhaust nor do I know if it makes a difference as long as it ends up on #1 TDC when finished adjusting valves.

2.Air flow sensor

Something else: I found that I had not connected a vacuum hose on the left side of the motor at a gray "Y" tube that then runs to a copper tube.
Not sure if that is why it is now trying to fire or if it is the switching of the Ref and Speed sensors. But I can now smell exhaust.
I now know I have fuel and spark. This thing should fire with those two things. ARRRGH.

What I'm not sure of:

Now I have to question timing. I'm not sure if the distributor was taken off and possibly put on wrong which I guess is a somewhat common mistake. I need to determine #1 TDC on compression to determine where the rotor is pointing when the #1 piston is at TDC on compression stroke.



If there is a Ohio member with a 3.2 that isn't too far away, would you be willing to let me put my DME/ECM in your car to test?

Let me know if any more information is needed and I'll do my best.

[gamin]

Don't see any mention of the CHT sensor. There are three sensors on the bracket in left of engine bay, ref, speed, and CHT. Got one?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by gamin

Don't see any mention of the CHT sensor. There are three sensors on the bracket in left of engine bay, ref, speed, and CHT. Got one?

Yes, have CHT. I will jumper to see if that does the trick I guess.

CHT jumper installed, no joy.

Also like to add that the battery is new in the event anyone was thinking it could be the battery is low.

[Tspringer]

I have no good suggestions... but I certainly feel your pain. My 3.2 won't start either and I am not sure its even possible to fix it. I am starting to evaluate changing to carbs and a regular distributor or other means of ignition.

[yelcab1]

Keep at it.
You seem to know what you are doing. Sorry I am so far away or I would help more. My exposure to 3.2 DME tells me that is it an easy engine to mess with.

If your cam timing is good, your fuel pressure is there, your spark is good, your spark plugs are there, your sensor wires are in place, and your ignition wires are in the right place, plus your distributor is installed correctly, then it will fire.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

Keep at it.
You seem to know what you are doing. Sorry I am so far away or I would help more. My exposure to 3.2 DME tells me that is it an easy engine to mess with.

If your cam timing is good, your fuel pressure is there, your spark is good, your spark plugs are there, your sensor wires are in place, and your ignition wires are in the right place, plus your distributor is installed correctly, then it will fire.

The distributor is where I'm at now. The engine is "skipping" like it's trying to start. I get smoke out the exhaust. My brother (also a member) sent me a few links on distributor being 180 off. I just need to figure out how to determine #1 TDC on compression and I should be able to sort that out pretty fast.

[timmy2]

Z1 on the crank pulley at the top of it's rotation under the mark on the fan housing and the rotor pointing to the small divot on the alternator body is TDC.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Z1 on the crank pulley at the top of it's rotation under the mark on the fan housing and the rotor pointing to the small divot on the alternator body is TDC.

That's right but I don't believe that is necessarily TDC on compression. Am I wrong?

[Laneco]

Make absolutely sure you have power to the coils and fuel pump on BOTH "crank" and "run" position. Jumper to a 12V continuous hot source if needed to be sure.

And the battery you mentioned? Make absolutely 100% sure that it is cranking the engine at full speed. Voltage drops are the enemy of all computerized cars. Slow cranking and voltage drops can easily equal a no-start condition.

angela

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Make absolutely sure you have power to the coils and fuel pump on BOTH "crank" and "run" position. Jumper to a 12V continuous hot source if needed to be sure.

And the battery you mentioned? Make absolutely 100% sure that it is cranking the engine at full speed. Voltage drops are the enemy of all computerized cars. Slow cranking and voltage drops can easily equal a no-start condition.

angela

I think tomorrow I will put the new battery on a trickle while I do some running that way when I get back it should be at full charge. I've been cranking a little and the battery could be slightly down but it still sounds about like it did when I first started cranking the engine over.

Thanks for your suggestion.

[jpnovak]

The engine has been sitting. Could also be stuck injectors from dried fuel. Try tapping them with the hammer handle, while cranking to see if they will free up and start to actuate again.

[yelcab1]

Z1 on the crank.
Open up the intake valve cover on the left bank, Grab the top of the #1 rocker and rock it back and forth. If it is moving at all, then you are at TDC number 1. Then make sure that the number 1 ignition wire is at the position that the rotor is pointing to on the distributor. Follow the firing sequence after that.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

The engine has been sitting. Could also be stuck injectors from dried fuel. Try tapping them with the hammer handle, while cranking to see if they will free up and start to actuate again.

I read a thread that a very quick hit with 12 volts can free them up but I don't know if I want to go that route. I might remove them and send them off for cleaning and rebuild. I figure that way I'm working with a known good injector at that point.

[cabmandone]

DME RELAY THY NAME IS SATAN! As it turns out, after going through every troubleshooting procedure in the book (and some not in the book) my DME relay arrived. I slap it in after doing all kinds of tests this morning and the beast roared to life. unfreekin believable!

Bench testing be damned. Next time there is a known flaky part I'm changing it. Thanks to everyone for your help. I hope sometime to be able to return the favor!

[yelcab1]

LIke I said, you seem to know what you are doing.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

LIke I said, you seem to know what you are doing.

ARGH. I can't believe it was that relay all along I had bench tested it putting voltage to the coils and everything checked out just fine. I can't for the life of me understand why a piece that bench tests fine somehow doesn't work once installed in the car.

Oh well, this Sam Adams Octoberfest celebratory beer is tasting good right now

[yelcab1]

Originally Posted by cabmando

ARGH. I can't believe it was that relay all along I had bench tested it putting voltage to the coils and everything checked out just fine. I can't for the life of me understand why a piece that bench tests fine somehow doesn't work once installed in the car.

Oh well, this Sam Adams Octoberfest celebratory beer is tasting good right now

I had flaky relays too. They are electronic components subject to vibration, heat, dust, bad solder joints, and phases of the moon. Be glad you find the problems. Let's get on with the next phase.

[Laneco]

This is GREAT NEWS!!!! It LIVES! CHEERS!!!!

Now...based on your experience, I am going to "test" the brand new relay I have sitting in my glove box. It would such to find it was DOA when I needed it.

angela

[larrym]

.
and this is why we all subscribe to these forums!
.
SO- howcum - we all worship the great Porsche God of reliability and Performance -
-
when that god could have fixed all this stuff prior to market, or at least with tech bulletins??????????G

[cabmandone]

I'll tell ya, it's a great feeling realizing a dream. I've always wanted a 911 cab and hopefully by next week, I'll be driving one. I got the clutch levers installed and adjusted. I've double checked my speed and reference sensors and btw, my car will NOT run if the wires are crossed. I read somewhere that it would run but mine will not.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress and when it's on the road. Thanks again to everyone that chimed in. I really appreciate all the help.

BTW, if anyone is wondering, my avatar is a Pinewood derby car my son and I built together. The pic is the primer stage of the car.