Keynsham - you had 7/12 lowers snap while attempting removal!? Was this an earlier car or one like mine with the coated dilvar studs? How were they visually?

That's classic, how did I not recognize those being the sides of the pistons when I just took out my pistons yesterday!! I have the Nikasils so I separated the jugs and pistons.

I plan to attack the exhaust studs tomorrow as well. I bought the tool Wayne recommended in his book.

I've started reassembling parts connected to the intake manifold. Injectors and fuel rails are in place. My refab'd T fuel line has been mocked up. I had a picture of the old T from disassembly so I think I have the fittings oriented correctly but can someone look at this and tell me if the fuel lines are routed correctly and what relationship they're supposed to have to the intake manifold? Do they touch?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382927639.jpg

I refinished the D/S flapper box which was very satisfying. Completed the job with some top of the line SCEET tubing. This stuff bends so nicely and will likely outlast everything else down there.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382927718.jpg

Cleaned up the area around the flywheel seal. Can someone tell me how I'm supposed to ease the edges of the case?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382927790.jpg

I use the double nut method on the studs with good success. I would also recommend using heat on the studs to help lessen the likelihood of breakage. Sometimes the threadlocker has a very strong bite on the stud.

The fuel line can be protected with the coil that was on the old fuel line. It's just wrapped around the hose and you should be able to "unwind" it.

Thanks Kevin - I found a few of your older posts suggesting dbl nutting - I will pick up some M10's tonight and give it a shot after MAPPing the base of the studs/case.

Spiral... well... my fuel lines had already been replaced at some point and the spiral has been lost. Says NLA on pelican. I'm sure something like this exists on McMaster just don't know what to call it?

The round cross section spiral wrap doesn't seem to be all that common any more. Typical stuff you find nowadays is flat section. Look up spiral wrap on McMaster.

You're way ahead of me with my build. I haven't even looked at my tranny since I separated the two. If you want that Snap On Collet stud removal tool I can mail mine to you.

Kevin, some pistons and cylinders are coming your way!!

Stud-B-Gone
 

Thanks to Kevin I gave the $1.00 stud removal tool a shot before dropping more bucks. Two M10-1.5s, a little bit of PBlaster and a few box wrenches got all 12 out in as much time as it took to spin the wrenches. I heated the hell out of the first one and it chattered like CRAZY coming out. Tried the rest sans heat, they broke free with very low torque. All dilivars looked a-okay to me, but judging by the failure mode seen in images on this forum, you never know, so 12 steel studs are on order.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383098681.jpg

Feeling good, like this is the last big unknown in my rebuild. Of course there is still the unknown of will it spew oil / fire when I start it up, but at least all the tricky fasteners have been dealt with. All the engine tin has been repainted and I think I'm ready to proclaim that it only gets more assembled from here on out. Wrightwood kit coming Thursday. Heads should be here by the end of the week. Head studs and input shaft seal here on Monday. I'm hoping to have this thing looking like a motor by the end of next week.

Good progress!

On those fuel lines, the originals on mine were "clocked" so that the rubber sections did not contact the intake manifold at all, and I duplicated that when I replaced the rubber sections.

Keep-em coming!
GK

I had seven of the lower studs found snapped when I took the engine apart! None of the remaining ones snapped when I took them out but two had to be professionally removed as they broke close to the case and that Dilivar stuff is HARD!

Input Shaft Seal Removal Made Easy!
 

Okay this was posted elsewhere on the forum and I need to echo its genius. 6" section of 1" threaded pipe. Union. Puller. The pipe threads onto the input shaft seal so perfectly and what's more, the pipe's ID matches the input shaft itself very very well. Couldn't imagine a factory tool performing much better. $6.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383335495.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383335549.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383335559.jpg

Received my Wrightwood Racing gasket set. Gasket inspector approves.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383335586.jpg

Anchor atlantic reports that heads have been UPS'd to me and should arrive Monday!
Progress marches forward.

That's ingenious! I love these Home-Depot-Sourced tools - put that right up there with the rear axle bearing puller...

I couldn't tell from the pic - did the spring that wraps around the back of that seal come out with the seal?

Nice work,
GK

I agree that's a fantastic recreation of the factory seal removal tool. Here it is captured from the 993 repair manual

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383341245.jpg

Spring was on the seal, right as rain. It was a very nice controlled pull.

What should I do to the head stud threads before installing my new steel studs? I don't own any chases/taps etc. Do own a compressor and loctite red.

Bigger question - what should I do to the carbon on the top of the pistons, which are captive in the cylinders (but removed from the block). I don't need them to be clean, but I don't want them to drop carbon on my brand new heads. The one piston I accidentally removed from its bore had impeccable measurements.

Also - any harm in re-using wristpin circlips? Any trick to installing them?

I would clean the piston crowns of all carbon, easy to do while leaving them in the bore but be sure to clean the gap between the top ring and top of piston well. I've used the same circlips in two top end rebuilds (race motor), no issue. I use mid-length needle nose pliers.

Sweet!

I made a chaser by taking a bolt with the same size threads and cutting some grooves perpendicular to the threads with a thin cutting wheel. I ran that in and out a couple of times, then blew the holes out with compressed air.

I reused mine. I positioned them into the groove using needle-nose pliers with a rotating motion which got about 3/4 of it into the groove, then pushed it in the rest of the way with a small screwdriver until I heard it click. I did a careful visual check to make sure they were in position before moving to the next one. Make sure you stuff rags/towels into the spigots in case one of them pops and goes flying - you don't want there to be any doubt as to whether it's down in the bottom end...

Any reason not to use an old head stud as the home made chaser you describe? How does the perpendicular cut clean out the thread?


Can someone tell me if I have my gaskets ID correctly? Most confused by the package with the thick, hard, shaft seal looking ~2.5" object, large black o-ring and several smaller ones. Don't recall removing anything like this from my motor.

Also just realized that not every motor has the collapsable oil return tubes so the kits don't include the little o-rings on the collapsable sections. grrr.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383408808.jpg

Forgot to mention - if anyone wants the valve stem seals from my kit they're free to a good home. Anchor Atlantic supplied new ones with my heads. Will trade for oil return tube little o-rings! They're marked Victor Reinz, came in the Wrightwood kit. Not sure if that makes them Viton?

I wouldn't reuse the wrist pin circlips. Bearing in mind the very low price is seems false economy not to replace them. I will be replacing mine as a matter of course as once I had a refitted one fail in a motorcycle engine and it wrote off the piston and the barrel. Not too expensive on a Yamaha RD350LC, but somewhat worse on a 911!

I started a thread on the 911 Engine rebuilding Forum called "Wrist/piston/Gudgeon pin Circlips" asking this very question. There may be some good advice there.

I'm surprised to see the red oil cooler seals... viton are available last I knew.

The hose portion of the oil tank to thermostat line has been replaced on my car, and was leaking. Cheap looking hose clamps were used. Anyone know where to get some 7/8" high temp oil hose? Is this the type of thing they have at local autoparts? Looks like Elephant racing has what I'm looking for but it'd be nice to find it retail. http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/hoseends/911hoseends.htm

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383435802.jpg

R-mm, Have you given any thought of doing what Smoove did and removing the rods and replacing the rod bearings and rod bolts?

How much was that gasket kit?

I'm presently re-agonizing over the whole piston/cylinder situation. I measured the ring lands to ring clearance on the one piston I removed from its bore: perfect. Going to get a ring spreader tomorrow and measure the gap. If they're in spec... I really want to do as little as possible to the pistons. Honestly, even cleaning the carbon off the pistons I'm leaving in the bores has got me spooked. How do I know I'm not going to trap a little piece of carbon agains the bore? I actually hadn't even realized that Smoove did that until I re-read his thread and see the conrods clearly not in place. I don't plan on touching them.

I'll PM you on the gasket kit.

I think you would be better off cleaning the carbon from pistons, ringlands and rings. I would... sparkly clean and reassemble.

This feels right. I'm avoiding it because I just don't know what the right move is after I've taken the rings off. I'm also slightly afraid of the metallurgy of the KS pistons and don't want to damage anything.

A. Reassemble with existing rings if in spec? Is there anything wrong with taking the rings on and off without honing?
B. Find a Porsche familiar machine shop to hone the Alusils and re-ring? With which rings? PET lists 930 103 986 01 as the rings for KS. PP does have these listed but they appear to be $70/set = $420!? The Goetze's sold on PP are 930103 986 00, listed as the Mahle rings.

I could really use some wisdom on this one.

Smoove which rings did you use?

Re-using my rings wasn't an option, I used the Goetze after spending hours reading epic piston/cylinder/rings threads that went back 11 years! They seemed to break in quickly, no detectable oil consumption in 500 miles.

Longevity is the question. I expect to put 1,000 to 2,000 miles/year on my car, so if I need to re-visit this in 5 years, it's OK with me and worth the gamble.

I did correspond with a PP rep on this decision - I got this response to my question about the availability of alusil-appropriate rings:

These are Goetze rings, Porsche OEM, the standard replacement rings for 911s for many years. There are different dimension for the different piston/cylinder sets, to wit:

Mahle : Piston Ring Set (95mm-1.5 X 1.75 X 4.0mm)
K-S (Alusil): Piston Ring Set (95mm-1.5 X 1.75 X 3.5mm)--this is the part number you referenced, 930-103-986-00-M42.

AFAIK, there is no difference in the material they are made from.

That said, if you haven't seen it already, you may want to consider Wayne's opinion and advise regarding honing Alusil cylinders, and reringing them. You can read it here:

How to Rebuild and Modify Porsche 911 Engines, 1966-1989 - Wayne R. Dempsey - Google Books


This caused me to doubt whether the more expensive rings would be of any benefit or if the dimensions were correct. I'd have been more comfortable with something more definitive, but decided ultimately to join the many Pelicans who've ringed their Alusils with Goetze rings. If it starts chugging smoke, there will be another project thread in my future.

GK

Thanks for the response Smoove. I read that entire thread last night and came away with the feeling that the Goetze ring are indeed suitable for Alusil and that the right type of silicone paste honing is appropriate.

Here's what I found this morning:

Piston ring end and side gaps are excellent, well within spec. .4mm end gaps, didn't write down side gaps but they were practically "as installed" per Bently. So, the rings are not the issue. I don't have a mic large enough to measure the piston itself nor an inside mic/bore gauge.

The question on my mind is should I take steps to restore the x-hatching and if so who should I send the cyls to? I suppose I could holler at Verden tool. I'll likely also call EBS who have supplied me with parts.

On the left you can see what four of my cyls look like - great shape but no x hatching is visible. On the right is what two cyls look like, x-hatching is visible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383494583.jpg

Piston With Cross Hatching visible (2/6 look like this)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383494650.jpg

Cyl without Cross Hatching visible (4/6 look like this)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383494689.jpg

Yep I use an old dilavar head stud as a chaser, since it's garbage anyway. The length-wise cut in the threads is similar to how a thread tap works. The typical tap has four sides with cutting teeth and the gaps between the sides are there to allow the chips to collect as the threads are cut, w/out interfering with the cutting.

When you use an already threaded part with a slot cut in it, might as well cut multiple slots to make it most effective, you are basically accomplishing the same thing. But since the slots are rather small ( I use a Dremel cutoff wheel), they can clog up pretty fast if the hole you're cleaning is full of a lot of crud. I would NOT use an actual thread tap to clean the threads. Using a tap often will loosen the fit of the threads because a common tap has square teeth on it. The square teeth alter the taper/cut of machined threads.

This is one reason why Henry's Supertec studs recommend using a thread forming tap to clean the threads in the case. A thread forming tap actually distorts the material being tapped to make the threads, more than it actually cuts the threads.

McMaster-Carr

So the thread forming tap is a nice tight fit to cut the junk out of the threads. But not absolutely needed. A slotted old dilavar works great.

I'm of the camp that says don't reuse the piston pin clips. They are very inexpensive so why not just replace them and have no concerns. You never know if you over-stressed a clip when prying it out and thereby reduced some of its spring effect. Agreed a lost clip can have serious results when the pin migrates partly out of the rod. Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to a really cheap fastener that has a critical role.

Those oil cooler seals are good ones. They're brown viton which is OK. Viton O-Rings The silicone ones are the orange/red type that are risky. Over time the silicone breaks down and gets hard/brittle.

Collapsible oil return tube seals for the inside of the standard steel OEM style tubes are part number 999.777.113.41 Pelican Parts - Product Information: 999-707-113-41-M260

I agree since you already removed the pistons from the cyls, might as well clean them up. Certainly can't hurt. Solvents like carb cleaner work OK but they stink bad, evaporate fast and are bad for your health. I soak them in WD40 for a long time (days) and you can easily scrape the crud right off. Or you can buy a gallon of Berryman parts cleaner at your local auto parts store. Its a gallon can like latex paint & has a dipping tray inside to allow you to pull the parts out w/out having to go on a undersea adventure to fish them out. Drop a piston in there, close the lid (this stuff stinks bad too) and let it sit overnight or longer. Carbon just falls right off.

Thanks Kevin. I was in Autozone today looking at the Berryman gallon tub - it did say that Alum should be exposed for NO MORE THAN 4 HOURS (their caps) and that iron should be treated with penetrating oil after exposure. I suppose I could rig up a way to to only expose the tops of the pistons to the solution. My understanding is that the skirts are iron ferrocoated but the piston crown are just plain cast alum?

To be clear - I actually only took one piston free of its bore and that was an accident. I suppose the advice I'm getting is to free them all and clean them right.

Any comment on the x-hatching?

If you are moving forward with piston cleaning then my last recommendation would be to have the domes ceramic coated aka thermal barrier coated. Many options available and proven results. Seems to be a great idea on our air- cooled engines.

My honed cylinders had no additional cross-hatch after the honing process. I was surprised at how smooth they looked! If anything, they looked cleaner. My instructions were to scrub them in hot water and detergent with a scrub brush (not a scotch-brite) before installing. I had my doubts about new rings seating against the smooth cylinder walls, but seat they did.

There's a pic of cylinder 5 at the bottom of this post - you can see that it's really pretty shiny.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/729856-87-drop-top-drop-n-top-end-2.html#post7394668

My old rings were definitely worn out though. The ring gap was outside the spec for used rings, the oil rings were heavily caked with varnish, the ring lands on the pistons were very dirty. Verden cleaned them up nicely (as you can see in that same post.)

Thanks for the responses all. This is really helping. These junctures are always difficult places to be and the having a lot of input is a great asset. I hope to be able to give this back to others soon.

I have the pistons upside down in a bath of WD40 (see top of pic). This feels much safer than simple green (which is semi-alum safe) or chem-dip, ditto. Meanwhile I measured the ring end gaps and found all to be not only in spec, but the vast majority within the "as installed" range given by Bentely. The chrome is in great shape on all rings, no wear visible. Some oil goo, but that should come loose easily. Did notice that all rings are marked either "GOE 5 "or "GOE CRO" (i think its CRO might have been something else - this was the oil ring), suggesting to me that they are Goetze's, but obviously chrome plated. Given this, I am going to go ahead and reuse them.

Was finding that something about the piston geometry made it hard to use them to drive the rings into the bore square so I came up with a semi clever way of using the back side of my calipers to drive them in a consistent depth, in this case about 38mm which is just above the base gasket surface as spec by Bentely.

Head studs and Heads arrive tomorrow!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383535049.jpg

Thanks for the correction on the Berryman stuff. I will check my container, as I have two- a new one and an old one. I believe I used the old nastier one for the recent set of pistons instead of new revised formula that is less nasty, more enviro-friendly stuff.

Don't have any experience with servicing Alusil cylinders so I can't comment there. But I think the history people have shown is good. Since you're reusing the rings, you should not have any problems. If using new rings, then it's advisable to clean the cylinder surface very lightly to remove embedded ring material/knock the glaze off and allow the new rings to seat/seal.

Your way of setting the rings in place to measure gaps is just how I do it. Depth gauge on a dial caliper is just as precise as using a piston. Depth gauge is actually better IMO because you can check your depths all over the place to make sure they're square/not cocked in the cylinder.

Make sure you note the orientation of your rings to reinstall correctly. They have a top/bottom to them.

The Heads are here!

I'll echo what's been said here before - Bob from Anchor Atlantic is top notch. Unbelievably friendly and easy to work with and the end product is art. His insignia, the cylinder number and my last name (!) are stamped on all heads. New Intervalve valves all around. Doubt they looked this good when they were new.

Also got my new lower head studs. Assembly in the house.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383606755.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383606773.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383606789.jpg

One thing that has me a bit stumped is a fairly dumb sounding question: does the 3.2 have a head gasket!? I didn't notice one during teardown and the PET seems to show something that looks like a head gasket (6) but when you look at the parts numbered list, there is no #6!?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383606966.jpg

Pretty heads! Nice personal touch with the Anchor Atlantic logo beneath the combustion chamber.

No head gasket on 3.2. It's a metal-to-metal seal with the head surface and the cylinder top.

That #6 is on the next page of the PET pdf. If you look to the right on the next page, it says gasket #6 is for 930.66 engine which is the 930/911 Turbo engine

These heads look really bad! I'll take them off your hands!:D JK.
I bet your oil consumption will decrease, but conversely the mosquito population will increase in your area since the fogging will stop!;)

Assembly is officially underway. All dilivars have been replaced with steel. Breather area seals have been addressed.

All piston rings measured out perfectly, end and side gaps! I'm going to clean them and put them back on. I'll be getting a dial bore gauge and 4" mic tomorrow so I can measure the bores and pistons themselves, but don't anticipate I'll find much wear. I'd like to use the ultrasonic cleaner to get the crud off the rings - any precautions I need to think about for the chrome on the rings? I'm still new to this machine and don't have a good feel for what it can strip.

Question: any advice on how to drive the G50 input shaft seal in and how deep it goes? I was so excited to try my home depot seal puller that I forgot to measure how deep it gets set. Presuming this one goes in dry on its OD, little but of trans fluid on the ID?

Received my 4" mic and dial bore gauge and measured the pistons and cylinders.

For anyone considering measuring their own parts - this is a satisfying job once you get over the confusion of how to use the tools.

After zeroing the mic against a standard, you mark the Pistons and Cylinders at the depth the measurement is to be taken at

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383886377.jpg

In the case of the pistons, you 'simply' measure the skirt. The challenge is of course how to accurately position the mic on a round object. I found that getting the piston at eye level helped.

To measure the cyls with the bore gauge you first need to set zero on the dial indicator. I set my mic @ 3.7403" (corresponding to K&S group 1), stacked up the appropriate feeler things on the bore gauge then rocked it back and forth in the locked mic and set zero to correspond to spec.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383886399.jpg

From there out its easy. Just rock the gauge back and forth in the bore at the specified depth, and again rotated 90 degrees, and record the deviation from spec shown on the gauge. Reading the dial bore gauge is a breeze compared to the mic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383886632.jpg


The good news is that the Ps & Cs have worn uniformly by a few thou and the piston to cylinder clearance is well below the .005" allowable, most are around .003". Based on this I finished cleaning up the pistons, rings and reassembled them and rechecked the ring gaps. They are very healthy. I called it a night but will be cleaning bores and mating surfaces up tomorrow and hopefully installing pistons in the bored without incident!

Separating these guys added A LOT of work to this "top end". I'm glad I had the chance to inspect everything down there and I hope that removing and replacing the rings doesn't lead to any trouble seating. I'm not AN-30 paste honing the bores, just cleaning them well.

Nothing to see here... just some Alusil jugs in the kitchen.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1384059453.jpg

Got the mating surfaces all cleaned up and then gave them a very thorough scrub with hot soapy water and a nylon brush. Ditto on the (much harder to clean) cam carriers. I swear my next investment is a blasting cabinet, or I'm jus sending all these parts out for blasting next time. Unbelievably time consuming stuff.

After striking out looking for a pliers type ring compressor in every autoparts store in CT I suppose I'll just order one on Amazon and continue cleaning in the mean time. I really don't want to break a ring as it will trigger a whole new calculus of honing, etc.

I'm not sure blasting is the solution for these parts, but I can sympathize - cleaning in general, and cleaning the cam towers in particular, was a much bigger part of my top end project than I ever anticipated. I stopped short of pulling out the spray bars, but was compulsive about flushing them out thoroughly with solvents, brake cleaner and compressed air.

Good progress - keep that momentum going!

GK