1st drop & top end observations & questions
 

Last night I got started with my first engine drop, undertaken to cure high oil consumption, leaks and some smoke. Pleasantly surprised that I could get most of the disconnections done inside a few hours. A few questions and observations -

1. Bentley 101-5 says to disconnect "multipin harness near left rear shock tower". Mine is a 87 and the book was written for all Carreras - I really can't see this connector - is it there?

2. Do all wires come off the starter?

3. Any trick to getting clutch slave cyl out? 13mm hex bolts I believe... access sucks!

4. I recall reading that theres an easier solution to the speedo wire disconnect than Bentely offers?

5. Bentely says to disconnect brake booster vac line - which side of the T makes most sense? This one is hard to pull apart.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379506500.jpg

Observations -

I notice a lot of people who drop w/o a lift use 6ton Jacks. I went whole hog and got 12 ton jacks, these things are MONSTERS and feel unbelievably sound even with 32in clear below bumper. Highly recommended, especially at HF with the 25% off that's floating around this month. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379506625.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379506632.jpg

Drop Answers
 

I have an 87 also, have dropped my engine twice.
That multipin is the connection to the fuel injectors. (forgot to connect it on my second re-install resulting in a no start).
Think you can see which wires disconnect from the starter once you're under there. You can also get the engine to a partial drop condition, then disconnect. Access gets better and they aren't "tight".
Same may go for the slave cylinder, no rush on that one. You can get to it as I remember. Have to play with your tool selection and hand position.
Speedo wire ?? I just unplugged like the Bentley said, don't remember any issues.
Brake booster hose, I just tugged it loose or loosened a clamp. Most hoses stay with the motor so unhook closer to the car. Again, you can drop it a little for access or view if you want.
Those jacks look great, I gotta investigate. I've never been really happy with my cars steadiness when up high but I only leave it there a few minutes and never get underneath it during the actual extraction.

1. Reach in, to the right of the left-side-shock-mount is the black 14 pin connector, grab and lift straight up
2. Only the battery wire comes off the starter for the drop
3, Let the engine drop until you can see the slave from above and disconnect, OR remove from below the car while the engine is in
4. Same side as the slave, remove the speedo sensor from the gear box and hang off to the side
5. The right side of the T, cut the one time use crimp style clamp and use a new hose clamp on the way back

Thanks guys this is great. I'll update my progress tonight.

That multi-pin connector is there, just slide your hand in there and you will find it. Lower the engine a bit, and then remove the slave cylinder.

That T-connector is a pain, you really have to pull on it to get it loose.

I always disconnect the speedo wires inside the car. Just remove the cover on the floor between the rear seats. They will be right there. Easy-peasy.

And most of all, just take your time and have fun.

Those 12 ton jacks work great - I use 4 and put them on the jack points built into the body. Using this JACK from our host, I got the car at the top of the jacks.

I was able to get the motor out without removing the rear valence by tipping the front to the ground, and putting the rear jacks on the torsion bar covers.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379515116.jpg

Mike

Mconn that is my plan. I got some solid rubber chocks to hold the front wheels. The angle is extreme but I did a test and it seems to be secure. Did you have any notion that the car wanted to roll forward? Happen to recall the clear dimension from floor to lowest point on the bumper?

The car did not roll forward, and was very stable. Those jack stands have a small bevel in the top that holds the TB cover. I don't remember the height at the rear, but it was tight, I should have removed the heater blower. That was using a HF trans jack with a piece of plywood bolted to it.

Mike

Clear Dim.
 

With my 87 and similar motorcycle jack, I needed right at 36" height. Did not remove the rear valance.

Can someone explain how the motor should sit on the ATV jack? If I don't do anything to the jack, the heat exchangers will carry all the weight. What's the thinking here? I'm more worried about crushing the heat exchangers than I am with stability as the jack has fairly wide rails.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379523973.jpg

Some folks use 2x4s, although that requires more height.

I have never had to remove the rear bumper, and have dropped my engine five times in the past 13 years.

Not to be dense, but what's the goal of the 2x4's - to pick up the bottom of the motor case instead of the heat exchangers?

You are not dense at all. sometimes we just put two 2x4s across the rails of the jack in order to spread out the weight. You should be OK resting the engine on the heat exchangers though.

If anyone else has had a different experience, please jump in.

I use a piece of plywood attached to the top of the jack with a couple of small bolts and nuts, just gives more space for the engine to sit on. The heat exchangers hold the motor up just fine.

When I did this I had a piece of plywood to set on the ATV "rails" and I'd added some shaped pieces of 2X4 to the plywood so the case seam of the engine was supporting most of the weight. I had some thinner pieces under the HE's so that the engine did not rock to either side.

I added a couple of pieces of wood to the center of the plywood to locate the center case flange and account for the elevation difference between the flange and the heat exchangers.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379549055.jpg

Thanks all this is really useful. I am 99% finished with my disconnections and almost ready to drop. A few more questions -

1. The large oil line from the sump to the front mounted cooler - Bentley implies it should be disconnected at the very large fitting (31mm/36mm I believe). Can't it be removed at the adjacent hose clamp instead? If not, what do you use to remove it - channel locks?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379556049.jpg

2. After that I'm ready to drop. Can someone walk me through it step by step? Bentley says to first remove the two bolts @ trans x member. When I do this, the engine/trans will start to drop, correct? Then as I remove the two engine x member bolts it will continue. Just those 4 fasteners hold the whole mess in place right?

3. I'm going to tart up my plywood base per the suggestions here, but I want to ask - is it okay if the car is angled forward for the first phase of the drop, or should I have it dead plumb so that the HE's sit flush on the plywood, not canted as seen in my pics below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379556075.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379556091.jpg

We put the ATV jack further forward to help balance the engine and transmission

EDIT: This works a whole lot better with 2 people
Yes, only 4 bolts holds the engine and trans to car
Make sure the jack will lift the E/T when you start loosening the bolts
Be very careful getting the trans shift rod out of the body - this is where
the 2 people helps - you will be rocking the engine to get past the rear body -
this sounds and feels scary - but it will work and when you are done you
will really enjoy a cool beverage !!

Regards,

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379557218.jpg

Remove the clamp to remove that hose. Do not use that type of clamp going back together. It does,t have the proper strength, and if you try to get it tighter, it chews the hose and will strip. You need 2 Oetiker crimp on clamps side by side. I have them and the crimping too. I can send.

You gotta push the jack forward to have it under the trans and engine. The trans is heavy and it will tip that way if you just try to support it under the heat exchangers. Once the trans is off, you can rest to work on the engine.

It's a bit of ballet required to get it right. I'm sure there are hundreds of pics here.

Are you guys sure that the hose clamp shown is correct? It almost looks like someone repaired that line. All mine have the pressed hydraulic connections at the ends.

I think Jon is saying it is not correct. It also leaks around that junction so my guess is that it was monkeyed with.

Actually, on a 3.2, this is incorrect. Well, add that line to you order list.

I know it is a pain, but I had to do it as well.

The hose clamp is not correct. There should be a crimp or swedge type of ferrule/collar on there. It's not high pressure so Oetiker clamps will be good. Use 2 of them, 1 just behind the ridge on the pipe and 1 more 3/8" further back and you will be good to go. These ferrules that are crimped on, rot away since they are right behind the wheel and get sprayed with all of the bad stuff used on the roads. The Oetiker clamps are SS and won't rust, chew the hose or loosen. They are pure genius for this kind of application.

Trying to loosen that fitting is also begging for disaster and broken pipes and knuckles will be the end result!!

I use two pipe wrenches. Place them close enough together so you could get your hand around them both, and just squeeze. The connection will be loosened with zero drama, and zero strippage.

Speaking of tools, I'm about to place an order for the essentials. PP's articles are very useful but I want to know what is nice and what is essential as many of these are pricey and have no other use.

-Cam holding tool / Z-bar are must haves since I don't want to add time to this process by fabing either.
-Flywheel lock needed if clutch is being inspected I presume? Any reason this one won't work w/ebay yoke?
-Clutch alignment tool probably worth it

-Chain tensioner tool needed or just nice to have?
-Are the flywheel bolt and heat exchanger nut tools available without the P-tax ie from amazon, HF or similar?

Cam holding, yes. I sold mine when done, they should be able to be found used. Z Bar, I like many others just used a magnetic base, flex stalk w/dial indicator and it worked fine (not rocket surgery). Just attach a piece of carbon steel someplace nearby to stick it to.
Clutch alignment tool comes with the clutch maybe?, its a cheap plastic thing.
I didn't do my own flywheel so ??
Chain tensioner not needed in my opinion.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379613248.jpg
These clamps worked great!

Based on what I did on my project: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/729856-87-drop-top-drop-n-top-end.html

-Cam holding tool / Z-bar are must haves Correct - don't forget your dial indicator guage too.
-Flywheel lock needed if clutch is being inspected I presume? Any reason this one won't work w/ebay yoke? I used a metal strap with holes to hold the flywheel still - I believe Wayne's book shows how this is done.
-Clutch alignment tool probably worth it Yes, and a bargain to boot.

-Chain tensioner tool needed or just nice to have? Numerous forum entries show how to use vice-grips, clamps, even turnbuckles to do this job.
-Are the flywheel bolt and heat exchanger nut tools available without the P-tax ie from amazon, HF or similar? Yup - I used a combination of tools I already owned for all of these - Harbor Freight, Snap-On, Craftsman, etc. Nothing magic about these as long as your allen-head socket fits through the holes provided in the HE's.

Good Luck!
GK

Thanks guys this is great feedback. This forum is a great place. If you ever need to be reminded of that fact, try asking a question about an S2000 (wife's car) on a Honda forum. It is the wilderness out there.

Almost down
 

Engine is almost down, but there is a thick brown cable that is still connected to the motor. This was not mentioned in bentley and its routing is extremely tight against the firewall so much so that I can't even tell what it's connected to eve after cutting all the zip ties I can access. I suspect it is the three plugs that I disconnected at the panel. Can someone please advise how to proceed?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379644721.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379644730.jpg

Remove the MAF.
Disconnect the clamp attaching the cable to the MAF (you can see it in the first picture)
Route the 3 connectors out of the way of the engine.

Drop the beast.

I have an old input shaft for aligning the clutch you can use. No special tool required.

I have mag bases for the dial (digital) indicator

THANKS. She is down.

Balance point leaves something to be desired. I had the ATV jack pushed as far fwd as the handle would allow (bumper is on) and the front of the tranny wants to drag, I'll have to get a dolly and pull the whole mess out with a helper tomorrow.

All told, not so bad. Clearance is cake with my huge aluminum jack and 12t stands, its clearance and disconnections that were the tricky part if any.

Are black plastic zip ties (literally, zip ties) stock? I think the PO may have organized the engine bay with some and these made it harder for me to recognize that the three connectors I removed on the MAF/throttle would hang. Either way, there should be a line in Bentley to the effect of "push the cables clear of the MAF after disconnecting" I hope I didn't do any damage to them, I'll check continuity before reinstalling.

Only other hitch was that I had to remove the throttle linkage on the D/S of the trans to clear the halfshaft. No biggy.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379648555.jpg

zip ties are not standard, but used all the times to tidy up the wiring. Good habit.
About the connectors, if you disconnect a connector, it is because that the connector has to be out of the way of the engine in order to remove the engine. Why else would you have to disconnect a connector?

Fair enough. Its easy to get into a checklist mentality when doing something new, need to keep up the common sense.

The manual states to put the engine back in just reverse steps. You are done with the easy part!

I was thinking as I dropped the motor that getting it back would be slightly trickier.... not to mention the steps between known as rebuilding the top end and whatever else presents itself. I can already see muck galore in the triangle of d.

I do have to say the Bentley includes actual steps for re installation of the motor not just "reverse what you just did". I've said it elsewhere, but is an excellent book, leagues above anything I've used before.

So now that I've had a night's sleep I'm ready to say that the ATV jack is workable not ideal. It has pedals to raise and lower and the lowering pedal is a blunt tool. No matter how delicate I was with it, the engine surged down and shook every time. Unless I am doing something stupid, I really can't see how you could get the balance point right without removing the bumper and pushing the jack further forward or building out a long plywood top surface with a significant forward cantilever. Incidentally I agree with everyone who says there is no need to remove the bumper. If anything is about this process is a two person job, getting it on and off w/o scuffing is. I dropped the motor alone, will get the wife to help me wheel it from one garage to the next for the rebuild.

I find that I can drop and install the engine alone, but it is safer and better with at least one more person. I also find that the two jack method works very well for me. If you want to use the ATV jack, get a really good one with fine adjustments going down. The cheapy ones are too uncontrollable. I use the ATV jack taking the Ferrari engine out and that works well enough.

Two Jack = one on tranny one on engine? I have a little trolley jack on the trans now but can't see how I'd roll the engine around like that. I suppose for most people it doesn't need to go far before its hoisted to a stand. I happen to be bringing it to the garage next door.

Two jack method: One jack underneath the engine, one underneath the transmission so you can tilt the whole thing forward or back. On your car, you don't need to pull it back at all, just drop the whole thing down on to two small moving dollies one under each heat exchanger. Then remove the jacks, and roll the engine out. Reverse the process on the way back.

Wasn't pretty but it worked. Mostly a pain because I had to off-road it into my second garage, but its parked safely and what's more the dreaded G50 cross shaft came out with no drama.

Going through Bentely there seem to be some missing steps. The Engine Disassembly section doesn't to my knowledge mention the engine tin, many peripherals such as the heat blower & ductwork etc. Can someone run me thru what steps I should undertake the disconnections? Until I can pick up my crane and receive my Yoke I'm working on the ATV jack.

(wife in place of motor)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379734496.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379734360.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379734446.jpg