Almost to the half way point. :)

And no broken headstuds!

Anyone want to do a forensic on my heads n pistons? At this point i think it does make sense to send the cylinders out to be measured. If anyone has a suggestion of a shop, send it my way. Heads heading to anchor atlantic and they dont do cylinders.

Nice work! You just passed me up, my cam tools should be waiting for me when I get home from my airline trip.

Where are you going to send your heads. How do you know you have the Alucils?

Mike

I didn't use the cam tool for removal, electric impact. I do have the tool from SIR though, nicely made, perfect fit and will use it on assembly.

Alusils... well they're light gray and non-magnetic. Today's task is figuring out where the hell the markings on the cylinders are to confirm that fact and then deciding exactly what exactly to do with the cylinders & rings. My instinct is to have them measured, cleaned/lightly honed then re-ring.

Heads going to these guys. Anchor Atlantic Group LLC :: Ultrasonic Aqueous Cleaners They're not a full service machine shop but have been recommended many times for their headwork and the price is right - I was quoted $750 presuming no new valves, studs etc.

No broken headstuds - nice! Sounds like Alusil to me. If you've got 10 fins, forum wisdom says Alusil.

I did the hone-and-re-ring approach on my alusils, honing done professionally. The rings seated quickly (I followed the routine prescribed in numerous threads on this forum.) At just over 500 miles I've yet to detect any oil consumption at all.

Post pics, we want to see how those heads, valves, and ports look.

Pics galore! Go back a few posts.

I'm doing some serious reading on Alusil. Interesting stuff. Here is a veryveryvery technical article on honing alusil from the Tech Head of Sunnen. New Honing Options For Hypereutectic Aluminum Cylinder Bores : Modern Machine Shop

I think I know the thread where you got that link - I spent many Fall and Winter evenings reading it, left my head spinning a few times.

Your chambers look a little cleaner than mine. I knew I needed new rings because I had lots of blow-by, and the engine just felt like one or two cylinders were tired. When I pulled the cylinders off, I found that the oil rings were completely clogged.

You're just getting to the really fun part, keep-em coming!
GK

You know, this engine project is a diversion from bodywork on the Alfa and I was really looking forward to just plain spinning wrenches for a while. Follow instructions, keep parts clean, bag parts, use torque wrenches. Then something like the alusil decision comes up. Urrrggghh. I hate these moments where the choice is $3200 or uncertainty.

I suppose I know for sure i'm pulling the cylinders. Seems silly not to at least measure them and check for broken rings. I had great compression but heard hissing in the crankcase on most cylinders during my leakdown test. I will be the first to say, I have never done a leakdown before and I did it cold so its a fairly useless test. But having come this far, I would be rather pissed to put it back together and have the ring be bad, or to have them go bad in 20-30k miles which would be 130k and a perfectly reasonable time for 25 y old rings to pack it in.

I haven't read up on it yet, but should I go the new P+C route, are any complimentary mods necessary to use the Euro 10.3:1 pistons, which are priced the same as the US ones?

Also... stand by for results of injector cleaning. They should be back from witch hunter today.

Per Waynes's book, you can slap the EURO pistons and cylinders as a direct swap.

That's the route I think I will be going. Here they are:

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 99-0174-915-SET

I will also be dropping some coin on the improved Rod Bolts. It seems our stock ones are a weak point on the 3.2.

I hope to catch up with you this week. Then decide if I am going to split the case.

Fun stuff!!

I would recommend cleaning them thoroughly before potentially spending money unnecessarily. WD40 and a scotchbrite pad / plastic bristle tooth brush will remove all the carbon without damaging the metal surface. You can remove the rings and clean those as well - keep track of orientation and handle with care.

Are there any subsequent (DME, valve timing) mods that need to be made on account of the higher compression? My guess would be no.

I certainly hope not to add $3200 to the rebuild bill but I do want to do it right.

Nice job Rus. Keep going!

A tip for plugging oil delivery holes (oil cooler ports, oil lines, oil return tube bores, etc) is to use rubber stoppers. I bought a bunch of various sizes from Ace Hardware. I also stick a wood screw in them as a "handle" to pull them out, since sometimes a chosen size can be a little on the small size and it goes farther into the hole than you'd prefer.

That's what she said.

Everyone's got their cross to bear........

Injectors
 

Well the injectors turned out to be in pretty damn good shape. Got them back from Witch Hunter with a flow comparison. Always nice to have peace of mind, not to mention new seals.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381521174.jpg

None leaked? Great, you're on a roll! I almost went with them, but they warned me of the likelihood that the 158's would leak, so for just a few more $ I went with reman'd 360's from Motoman. They work like a charm. The only down-side is that a chart like you got doesn't come with the reman'd units.

GK

Just a few bucks more!? I paid $22/ea injector. How much were the 360s?

I paid $35/each, but I just checked his site, and the link for the 360's sends you to the page for the 364's for $45 each, which are also out of stock.

I removed the crimped end from the hose, and found a copper plumbing fitting that fit over the brass, soldered it on to build up the end. Then I used a straight piece of hose.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381538456.jpg

Mike

Got the heads boxed up and ready to go to Atlantic. I made the mistake of checking the replacement cost on PP - christ - $1500 ea. I suppose the prudent thing to do is insure them for that amount or close to it, which will cost about 3x shipping.

On another note I've been ultrasonic cleaning various parts and wondering about the goo used to seal the various posts and studs on the timing chain housing. For instance the studs which the tensioner and idler mount on seem to have some sort of JB Weld / Goo on the back which is brittle in places. It's visible in this lousy pic in clean part of the housing and you can see the outlines of two more sealed areas in the dirty part. What am I supposed to do here? Re-seal? Let it be?

DUMB QUESTION - is it only possible to replace two chain ramps w/o splitting the case?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381550657.jpg

JB weld works fine on the backside of the studs on the chain boxes.

You should be able to replace all tensioner ramps without splitting the case. You can back the bolts that hold the inner ramps out of the case which will pop them loose. When you reinstall it can be a bit tricky to wedge the new ramps back into place.

Fan related questions:

Should the alternator be rebuilt as a matter of course or should I let it be? Will any old shop be able to handle it or will they be stunned by this (french?!) object from a weird german car?

Ive read the thread on fan resto. I have no desire for bling or body color anything but would like to know how to at least get the housing resembling clean. The fan itself cleaned up decently with elbow grease. Housing... Yuck. Any ideas?

Progress
 

Got the new TOB and old starter gear installed on the new PP. Anyone spot mistakes? The inside of the new TOB is splined (?) whereas the old one is not. Curious.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688443.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688396.jpg

Think I'll have the flywheel lightly resurfaced. Cleaned it with scotchbrite but there are some marks from the rivets or rivet relief pockets that are a bit stubborn.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688546.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688570.jpg

Pics of the clean fan and very un-clean housing. What can I do to this housing in my garage that will make it look just slightly better?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688481.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381688494.jpg

Nice work. I have been using Waynes book for my work, Also have the Bentley but have not referred to it much. Well it sems Wayne left out that you need the P212 tool to remove the tiny sprocket holding thingy.

I was easily able to remove the 19MM cam nut with my newly acquired tools!

Is there any alternative the P212 tool?

Not sure I'm following you Whiz - looks like P212 is for installing the flywheel shaft seal.

I was able to get the cam nut, tensioners, sprockets etc out w/o special tools.

The flywheel looks pretty good. I'd leave it alone. Just be sure to clean the stepped area above the clutch disc contact surface. This stepped surface is where the clutch housing seats.

The release bearing looks good. DO NOT put any grease on the inside diameter of it. It's plastic and does not require grease. But do put a LIGHT swab of extreme pressure grease or antiseize on the release bearing ears where the fork contacts it

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/MVC-291S.JPG

You can scotchbrite the fan housing and paint it with some high temperature black paint. Flat black looks pretty good in my opinion.

Kevin, what about those round markings on the flywheel? I'm not certain I understand how they got there but they are also on the old PP. Most wear happens when the parts are moving, and obviously you would not get a perfect circle in that instance. I suppose its an impression left from the car sitting? It came from Upstate NY where it probably sat 6mos/year. I ran my fingernail along and could juuuust barely feel something in some instances but it is certainly not a deep cut. Another hour with the scotchbright will probably get it off. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381706878.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381706886.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381706894.jpg

Don't sweat those spots. Those are from the rivets on the clutch disc. I'm sure it's rust from sitting for so long. Won't be a big deal with the new disc.

Rivet marks from long parks are normal. I would leave it alone as well. Clean everything with brake clean including finger prints.

Thanks dudes, will do.

Going to the garage to clean up that disc and hopefully get some purchase on the damn guide tube screws. Why pan head screws used ANYWHERE outside the cabin of a car is beyond me.

Parts cleaning is going full speed while my heads are being dissasembled at Anchor Atlantic.

A few sealing questions I'd like to put to the community:

1. I made the decision not to disturb the pistons in the cylinders. Compression was good all around prior to the rebuild, bores look fantastic, and I don't want to gamble with re-ringing the alusils. If I put it back together and it smokes from the rings, well I'll cross that $3200 bridge if I come to it. During dissasembly the cylinders were nudged about a tiny bit, and more over, pressure was of course released on the cylinder base gaskets. Must these base gaskets be replaced? I'd prefer not to wrangle with the cylinders to get them off with the pistons still in their bores but I want to do the job right.

2. The plan is to seal metal to metal surfaces with Loctite 574 and dress the gaskets (not shaft seals) with Curil-T. Any other sealants we feel are must haves?

3. I have a black magic fear of changing the rear main seal. I am well aware that no sealant should be used on the OD of the seal and that i should look for a groove in the crank. Is there anything else to know? one brand better than another?

I'm letting the dog sleep on the pulley seal as it is bone dry. My breather was a firehose of oil all over the back of the motor so I really can't confirm if the r main was leaking or not so it feels right to replace it.

No need to disturb the cylinders and potentially break a piston ring. Just ensure that during your work & cleaning that no crud gets under the base gaskets. Do a cursory inspection and clean up around them, nudging the cylinder off the case a bit to ensure you get everything clean around/under them.

You should have no issues with smoke or whatever when you put it back together. You will have not disturbed anything on the piston & cylinder so there's no reason to believe there will be a problem.

574 on the camshaft housings is fine. Just don't over-do it. A thin coat of it is all that is needed and only on one surface. Many cam housings i've seen have a ton of sealant oozed out of them. BTW a good product i've found for 574 removal is Loctite Chisel Remover. Can get it from Grainger or Pegasus Racing. Tried the new low VOC Permatex & CRC formulas and they're weak.

Curil T is ok on the gaskets like the breather cover, chain housing-to-engine case and the chain housing covers. But they do OK dry too. Don't put the Curil on the valve cover gaskets. They don't need it IMO. Curil would be good on the intake manifold gaskets too. Just make sure to flatten/level the insulators to get a good seal with your gaskets.

574 is recommended on the pesky paper gasket that goes under the circular cam plate that seals the chain housing to the cam housing. Sometimes sticky Curil can make that one leak if the gasket sticks in place while installing the cover plate. 574 is less sticky and lets the gasket "glide" if it needs to move a bit. Most importantly, look at the gasket from the back side of the chain housing after you've installed the cam cover plate. If the gasket has moved, do it over again. You don't want a leak there because the engine is coming back out again......

Another thing to note about the cam cover plate. This cover, and it's receiving surface on the cam housing, are usually not all that flat. I would highly recommend putting a piece of 800 wetsand paper on a piece of glass and "resurfacing" the covers and the receiving sealing surfaces of the cam housing. It'll make for a much more reliable seal. As they stand right now, I bet the amount of contact area for the gasket sealing is minimal. As a test, you can color the sealing surfaces of both parts with a permanent marker and run them across the sandpaper. You'll be surprised how NOT flat they are when you see how little marker comes off as you make a few passes across the paper.

You are wise to leave the snout seal alone. If it ain't leaking, leave that sucker be! And honestly, a lot of people mistake the snout seal for a leak culprit when its actually the #8 main bearing housing o-ring. That o-ring is inside the case so there's really nothing one can do to fix the leakage w/out splitting the case. Good to hear yours isn't leaking.

The rear main seal can be a crapshoot. It's not hard to replace, as you just dent it with a blunt flatblade screwdriver and a hammer at the notch in the case. Then it prys right out. Installation can be a bit tougher. Many people just tap the new one in with alternating taps opposite each other. Sometimes it just won't go well and the seal keeps popping out. Or worse, the edge of the case grabs the rubber coating on the seal and scrapes it off.

If you do replace the flywheel end seal, I recommend using a fine tooth file and lightly chamfer the edges of the bore. Doing so helps eliminate the damage to the rubber coating going in. I use some water or spit around the perimeter of the seal to lube it going into the bore. Water/spit dries up and avoids opportunity for lubed seal to pop out. The Curil-T on the seal periphery is a BAD application of that stuff. Just use a LIGHT swab of oil on the seal lips where it seals against the spinning crankshaft area. This is recommended to avoid dry spinning during first startup.

If you do the tapping-in method, use some sticky grease on the back side of the seal to keep the garter spring attached to the seal lip. The heavy tapping can sometimes pop the garter spring off the seal and you don't even know it. That's why many service manuals say to "pack" the seal with grease before installation.

I'm lucky that I acquired a small lot of Porsche specialty tools a while back. Two of the tools are the crankshaft seal presses for front & rear seals. They work fantastic.

Is it just me or is there a crack on the inside of the TO bearing as seen in your picture???

Non, c'est toi :):D:)

Holly caca, It's a big one.

Kevin - many thanks for this informative reply. Any advice on what to do about the slight carbon buildup at the top of some cylinders? Scotchbright it off?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382310499.jpg

While my heads are in the shop I've been cleaning and painting. I'm using VHT high temp primer / satin black on most everything except parts that are too pitted/rusted and difficult to clean back to bare metal such as the D/S front lower tin on which I'll use POR-15 (which is in fact rated to 450 degrees F).

I rebuilt my fuel lines with Gates Barricade FI hose and Oetiker clamps. I've only clamped down one side per line to avoid "clocking" (thanks Smoove for that tip) and will clamp the other side upon install. I checked that the clamp sizes I used were appropriate to the OD of the hose on this very thorough chart from Oetiker.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382310810.jpg

Removed the old JB Weld on the back of the chain covers and re-applied with JB High Temp Expocy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382310921.jpg

Cam towers have been cleaned

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382311010.jpg

Fan housing / flapper boxes / engine tin are being high temp primed and painted.
The VHT stuff needs to heat to 200F to cure. I know the flapper will see this - presuming the rest of the motor (ie fan housing) will as well?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382311024.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382311048.jpg

Another question I forgot -

Can someone tell me if the piece that holds the two speed reference sensors should have two identical metal sleeves to receive the senders? I don't have a picture of mine, but I was surprised to find that it was asymmetrical, that is to say there was a metal sleeve to house JUST ONE SENDER (I think the lower but can't recall). PET makes it look like there should be two metal housings - see red.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382311813.jpg

Pic of the sender holder in questionhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382317353.jpg

Mine was like yours - just one metal sleeve, so whether it was supposed to be one way or the other, you're not the only one. Good progress!
GK

Not positive I got your point...

Nor am I positive I know what the inside of the TOB is supposed to look like. Anyone care to chime in on this?

It was in reference to what zippy_gg thought was a crack inside the TOB (post #113) but I check PP and it got the same so it must be normal but I don't remember seeing it when I install mine. I'll check my photos.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1382355536.jpg