Getting a PPI doesn't seem realistic or possible.

[PushingMyLuck]

I am wondering how you guys have pulled off a PPI when buying your 911.
Everyone says "Get a PPI! Get a PPI!" Yea, but HOW???

I was looking at an '86 Carrera I drove past in my neighborhood.
While I was there, another guy pulled up to write down the phone number.
When I met the seller, he was already on the phone with yet another caller.
The car was also listed on Ebay, so it was getting sold either way by the end of the week.

Asking this guy to PPI his car would have been out of the question.
He knows he's going to get an easy sale. No PPI.
(If I ever sell a car, it will be Ebay for this very reason. No annoying buyers to deal with.)
The seller just doesn't need to deal with the hassle when there are so many buyers who will not bother and just hand over the cash and drive away with a fake plate.

In fact, asking for a PPI just identifies you as a pain in the ass buyer, who will nickel and dime the PPI results.
Look, if it's been for sale for months with no takers, that's different;
But, it's a seller's market along with panic buying.... It's almost like a real estate mania and the way the 911 forums sound.
Asking for a PPI takes the car off the market for a week, when there are people calling daily.

The other huge obstacle for a PPI is the fact that at least 1/2 the cars I've seen for sale are not even currently titled/insured/registered.
Most often, a flipper is selling it, or the car has lapsed. So, the car is not even drivable.

Let's say you do find a private seller AND no other buyers.
Porsche shops are over an hour away.
So, what do you do? Call a flatbed to tow the car?
At $5/mile, you're looking at a $500 tow, and $400-$500 for the PPI?
$1000 a pop and I can see why people have posted that it's taken them a year or two to get the right 911 for them!
That's a tough pill to swallow for each car that doesn't meet standards.

On that note, I've only seen a handful of 911's in person, but MOST sellers don't even let you drive the car, even if it IS registered (most are not)
Most just give you a ride, registered or not. I've only actually driven one of them, so I don't even know if I would enjoy a 911.
Right now, I just like the idea of owning one, but actually buying a 911 is a lot more convoluted than buying a regular car.

[thepenguin99]

Each case is different but, in general, getting a PPI on all but insanely underpriced cars hasn't been a problem for me. The really underpriced ones are almost always gone when I call/email.

[Elombard]

Yeah if you are bargain shopping (I usually am) then you may have to take a chance and hope the low cost offsets any problems. Maybe try going after slightly over priced cars that are not getting as much action get a PPI and then negotiate?

I dont know what to tell you on the tow thing, if the tow was over $100 bucks and the PPI over $200 I would not be buying. I realize PPIs often cost more than that in many markets. As they say its Cheap Insurance if the car needs major engine work.

All that said all my purchases have been local and i am able to do my own PPIs or in one case the owner (a buddy) did the PPI with me. Hard to do on a remote sale.

[NYNick]

PML,

Gee, I'd love somebody to have that attitude when selling my cars! While it is a sellers market, you shouldn't be that idiot who buys on instinct or self inspection. These cars can hide a whole host of very expensive problems, and you'd never find out until you got it home and started driving it around. And, the little niggling problems that aren't necessarily life threatening can mount up quickly....and expensively!

Sure, half the fun is working on these cars, but when push comes to shove, you need/want and solid car to start with...that is, one that isn't going to cost you a fortune right away.

Anybody who isn't willing to have their car inspected is either selling a very very desirable car at a very very high price, or is afraid of what the inspector might find. I'm not interested in either of those type of situations.

Have you tried the shops that fix these cars for potential cars that are for sale? I can think of two shops in your area to go and speak to. Have you looked in the local PCA classifieds? Even Panorama? Anyone remotely familiar with the club and the marque will understand the need for a PPI. If not, you're barking up the wrong seller, IMHO.

And EBAY? Gawd. I tried selling two cars there. What a cluster you know what. Low ballers, scams, Nigerian bankers...the worst.

Just as an aside, I had a PPI done in California on a car I'd never even seen. Bought it as a result. Car was better than expected.

Keep looking. Your car will show up.

Nick

[Josh D]

The best thing you can do in these cases is be an informed buyer. There are some great books on the subject of buying a used 911 that points to what you should be looking for.

I did my own PPI and new what I was getting into. Records and receipts with the car help, as you can see what kind of repairs have been done and generally how the car was maintained.

The hard to identify problems, like broken head studs, aren't always found in a PPI anyway.

If I was selling and had a serious buying on the hook, I would have no problem pulling the lower valve covers one at a time to show intact head studs. Pulling a spark plug isn't a big deal and can sometimes show if it's getting oil in the cylinders. These are a couple examples.

Knowing what to look for and how to look is the key. If the seller isn't willing to let you look, he/she may have something to hide.

[McLovin]

I never get a PPI. That's not my method.

I show up with cash, inspect the car myself for a half hour, take it for a drive, look over the title and paperwork, and then do a quick and easy, under market value deal with the seller.

I've found that tends to give sellers quite a bit of "flexibility" in price.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by NYNick

PML,

Gee, I'd love somebody to have that attitude when selling my cars!

Then just lower your price. Once you get to the right price point, you'll have people showing up at your door with cash, ready to go.

[manbridge 74]

Hard to buy a 911 easy these days. You need a knowledgeable person to assess car quickly and say all the right things to seller to show you are a serious buyer. A 911 broker perhaps? Guys like techweenie can tell from pictures whether it's advisable to see car in person, etc.

That said, I've a lot of free time here in the West and would gladly look at 911s or any classic car for that matter within 1000 miles or so for a small fee plus expenses....

[$ Short]

Where are you located? Someone here would probably know where to have car taken to for PPI.

[NYNick]

There are two strong independent Porsche specialists in his area....it's my area as well.

Good cars are hard to find. Bad cars are expensive to fix.

Nick

[inthedoghouse]

Its all about risk in my mind. I paid for 2 out of state PPIs only to find out the car was not for me. The first one came back with an estimated repair bill of $7k right off the bat. That scared me for sure. The second one showed some detailed pictures of a bad respray that I did not want to deal with. I was out about $600 at this point but glad I did not buy those cars. The third time was what I was looking for. I had a friend inspect and drive the car. Paid for yet another PPI. I even flew across the country to inspect it myself and pay for it.

Engine, transmission or bodywork can get into the multiple thousands very fast so you need to decide your acceptable risk level and what sorts of projects you are ok taking on. For me, that meant lots of spreadsheets The good news in the end, your car will be obvious and life is good. The chase is just part of the experience - if it was easy then it would not be so fun.

[Jrboulder]

Usually when looking for a bargain on a Porsche you're going to get burned. I've never had a PPI done but mostly because the first time I was too stupid and after sorting that one out I knew enough about 944's to know the problem areas. When I bought my 912E I really didn't care if there were any problem areas other than rust because I plan on rebuilding everything. I would not buy any 911 without a PPI period.

[mmahon04]

Quite frankly, I find PPI's to be extra insurance, but highly overrated for the most part (at least, through present). I can understand getting compression, leakdown, and vacuum tests (as I can't bring my tools for those), but I have yet to find either Porsche techs or an independent shop doing PPI's who will go through the important particulars, not limited to:

- Body panel gaps (check alignment for panel removal/installation; possible indication of body damage)
- Chassis seams/welds (again, body damage check)
- Paint thickness (check for respray)
- Test of *all* electrical functions (proper operation)
- A true, spirited driving test (higher speeds, harder braking; some steering wobbles might appear at >side street speeds).
- Missing bits and bobs (ex. rear seat locks)
- Damaged bits and bobs (ex. rear speaker grilles)
- Extra bits and bobs (ex. additional switches/wiring apparent when compared to OEM)

Anymore, I go armed with data references of factory specs, and a knowledge of what to look for from mistakes in the past. Agree on a PPI scope of work, and see if it's worth it to you.

- Matthew

[Michael T]

The first car I looked at a 1989 Carrera was a find. The PPI found a broken stud. The engine needed a top end. Best money "I wasted" ever. The car was priced very well, as the seller was unemployed for some time, but not with this problem.

[inthedoghouse]

Great point on the scope of work for the PPI. In my 3 PPIs, I found the scope of work and output to me was vastly different - technical info, pictures, documentation, etc. Be sure to discuss with the shop what they do and get some examples. I would tell them what you are looking for if they don't normally check for that.

In the end, my PPI on the car I bought was technically a failure - bad leak down. I think it was a erroneous test as car runs great so it really is just an extra data point but not 100% accurate.

[Stonestreet]

Don't let the amount of attention a car gets dissuade you from sticking to your plan. The most recent car I looked at before I ended up with the one I bought had a PPI done for me and found all kinds of reasons to not get the car. I wanted it pretty bad, and the seller was a real nice dude.

The seller said there was tons of interest in it, primarily from guys who hadn't checked with their wives or bank. I think these cars get a disproportionate amount of attention because it's a dream for a lot of people. Point being that a serious buyer is worth doing a bit of work for.

You also need to use your gut. Talk to the seller and ask questions to make sure you get the information you need. If the seller doesn't want to take the time to make sure it's going to a good home, he probably didn't care much for the car in the first place. If I ever sell mine, I'll definitely be screening the buyers and be willing to take a bit less money and put in a bit more time if it's going to someone that will respect it and keep it thoroughly cared for.

I was impressed with some of your responses and opinions offered on other threads, so don't start worrying now.

[emac]

One of the best threads, I will be short as I'm on my phone and find it hard to type. Laid up with 5th surgery on my ankle. Anyway I purchased my car about 14 yrs ago and did not get a PPI. I have worked on cars my whole life I'm (63) and felt I knew enough. P cars are another story, thankfully I have owned about nine VW's so that helped a bit with the engine. In my case I was very lucky owner was very upfront, tons of paperwork let me check everything I wanted and even let me drive it ALONE albeit he had my hard cash in hand. I got a great car and was lucky. Throughout the years replaced all the normal things that come up and feel that should I ever buy another I would pass on the PPI. I feel the knowledge I have gained with this car and my gut would steer me in the right direction.
Ernie 81sc

[nene]

Well, my experience has been that having a PPI done will save you time and MONEY and headaches. My firs two PPI's included an 88 Carrera (asking 20k with 86k miles), which had basically TWO dangling pistons doing nothing. The other, a ONE owner 1984 Carrera with 90k miles had very low leak numbers, now if this does not matter to you, then go ahead and just buy the car sight-unseen, and have a good-nite.

[safe]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

On that note, I've only seen a handful of 911's in person, but MOST sellers don't even let you drive the car, even if it IS registered (most are not)
Most just give you a ride, registered or not. I've only actually driven one of them, so I don't even know if I would enjoy a 911.
Right now, I just like the idea of owning one, but actually buying a 911 is a lot more convoluted than buying a regular car.

I would never buy a car I hadn't driven. If you are a serious buyer the seller will know that you are and isn't after a joyride.
The car should be registered, that's a given.

But, if the car is obviously cheap and under valued all bets are off!

[clutch-monkey]

no ppi.. no sale
i've run about 8 cars through PPI's now, in all cases the seller was happy to drop the car off. the ppi report is just as useful to them as it is for you.