Is Welding Difficult To Learn?

Wrecked944 · 08-26-2002, 11:21 AM

Okay, I have a stripped 17mm drain plug on the bottom of my tranny and I am still having trouble getting it off. Tried chisels, tried JBWelding the socket to the inside, tried drilling opposite holes and torqing it off...and so now I am ready to try my hand at welding a nut on the thing and remove it properly. I would take it to a shop for this procedure, but the car is not driveable. Soooo....I have never welded anything in my life and I barely passed shop class in Junior High (and that was in the 70's)....I see these DIY welding kits at stores for around $200. All I want to do is afix a nut to a drain plug. Is this within the realm of reality? I've kind of always wanted to learn to weld anyway. So now seems like a good time.

Thanks,

JWest · 08-26-2002, 11:29 AM

For welding a nut on a plug, using a MIG welder, it basically a "point and shoot" operation. Very easy. If you didn't do good, the nut will break right off and you get more welding practice.

Jim Sims · 08-26-2002, 11:30 AM

IMO your situation is not the time or place to learn how to weld. Either find a welder that will come to your car with their equipment or tow/flat bed your car to a shop. Jim

Wrecked944 · 08-26-2002, 11:44 AM

Jim Sims, that is very wise advice. I think I shall incorporate both replies and take a good, long breather. First I'll buy a basic MIG welder kit and then I'll maybe spend a few days practicing in my basement before trying to do anything crazy under the car. If I can't weld a nut in my basement, then I will NOT attempt it whilst lying under my car.

The ever-eloquent ChrisBennet once said to me, "Sometimes the most valuable tool in my toolbox is patience."

Now would be a good time to pull it out and use it...

Thanks,

Rot 911 · 08-26-2002, 11:47 AM

I agree with Jim here. This is not the time to learn welding. You screw this one up and you are into big time expense.

VincentVega · 08-26-2002, 11:48 AM

I just bought a welder and will 2nd the suggestion to take your car to a shop and have it fixed. The cheap welders are just that. I think you have to spend at least $400 to get one with some usefull options and available parts. Of course, I would love to have a $2k Miller, but mine will do for now. Add to that the cost of argon and the bottle, some wire, mask, gloves.... Then you have to weld it. It might be easy to weld, but it's not easy to weld clean smooth beads. In the time spend practicing your technique you could be enjoying your car.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

stormcrow · stormcrow's Garage

Janus,

Why not drill out through the center of the plug (about 3/4 the dia of the original) making sure not to damage the tranny threads and with a small chisel, knock the rest of the plug out.

start with a small pilot hole and enlarge to the proper diameter. I am not sure if the tranny is in the car but if it is, then the metal shavings from the drill will fall to the ground. Once the plug is drilled you could take a small hack saw blade and saw a groove in the side of the plug which will make it easieer to knock out.

Steve

Steve F · 08-26-2002, 12:00 PM

For the cost of trailering and all the hassle you might try a mobil welding service to come out to you and fix you up.

Just a thought

JWest · 08-26-2002, 12:04 PM

I'm sorry, I guess I mis-interpreted the question.

As far as welding goes, sticking a nut to a drain plug with a MIG is about as easy as it gets. You don't need a smooth bead, or good control, just get it to attach and if the weld fails grind it off and try again.

As to whether you SHOULD attempt this, that is your call and depends on how badly you want to learn to weld, how often you will use the welder in the future, and how badly you do not want to take the car to someone else.

Cornpanzer · 08-26-2002, 12:09 PM

Also, keep in mind that you will be welding on something which has a few quarts of flammable liquid inside it. Personall, I would suggest that you locate your local Snap on or MADC man and invest in a set of high quality E-Z out style bolt extractors. They are something you will rarely need, but worth thier weight in gold when you do need them. On your way home, stop at the local Home Depot and buy a set of self centering "bullet tip" drills. They have a tiny center drill right on the end of the drill bit which makes it much easier to drill a perfectly centered hole. Then thread the screw extractor in and hopefully you will get you plug out. Just be careful not to be a gorrilla and break the screw extractor off. Dave C

stormcrow · stormcrow's Garage

I say drill it out. As far as welding goes, it is not as easy as everyone makes it seem. Mig welding is like everything else, you learn the basics, then you start to learn how to do it.

Is the plug your welding on steel, or alunimum alloy? How easy will it be to try and strike an arc and hope you hit the target let alone run a bead of weld or even a tack weld lying on your back underneath the car?

If you want to weld a bolt on, call a local welding shop/sheet metal shop/mechanical contractor/ pipe welding shop/automotive welding shop and see if they have someone with a portable welder who can come by and do it for you. It may cost you a couple hours of the persons time (maybe $60 or $80) but a lot cheaper then buying a welding machine.

Steve

scottb · 08-26-2002, 12:38 PM

Underneath your Porsche is not the place to learn how to weld. You're asking for trouble if you get under there and start welding without know what you're doing. You've got flammable liquid all around you.

Flatbed the car to a muffler or machine shop and let a pro take care of the problem. If there's a shop close enough, you might even be able to use your AAA card (if you have one) for the towing.

Wrecked944 · 08-26-2002, 12:45 PM

Wow, so much excellent advice. You guys rock...as for the drain plug, I am amazed at how hard it is to remove. I screwed it in just two weeks ago and I made it a point to "finger tighten" it so it would not get stuck. Maybe I cross-threaded it? I have no idea.

In any event, I really have always wanted to learn to weld but have held back because I figured I might like it TOO MUCH and I already damaged enough things on my car and elsewhere with ill-advised and poorly concocted DIY mis-adventures. Perhaps this drain plug is just another reason why I should NOT learn to weld, right?

As for drilling...hmmm...I do own a few drills and have managed to damage a lot of expensive parts with them already...

I also have some "easy outs" but have never needed them (so far)...the biggest one I have is 6.7mm...seems weak compared to the Drain Plug From Hell Fortified With UberTorque...

stormcrow: When you say drill...I am thinking you mean to drill out the middle to weaken the thing so it can be mauled with a chisel? I like that idea as well...

However it goes, I will not be defeated by this damned drain plug !!

dad911 · 08-26-2002, 12:49 PM

Is it possible transmission is magnesium case?

From what little I remember of High School Chemistry, isn't magnesium highly flammable?

Can one of the experts chime in... Is it ok to weld around Mag case transmissions & engines? Or is it only dangerous in powder/ribbon form?

Jocke · Jocke's Garage

Don´t forget the most important thing if you start welding on your car, TAKE THE MINUS POLE AWAY otherwise you have a broken generator..

And if you buy one of the cheep welding machine it´s probably not prepared for the Argon, it´s some kind of wire who doesn´t need Argon on the cheeper one, that kind of welding machine should you not buy it´s more like a toy I think.

/Jocke

82SC · 08-26-2002, 12:57 PM

ackk...don't drill it out!!!

although chances are minimal but the chance of getting metal shavings in a 911 tranny would keep me from doing it...

the weld the nut on technique is good...hit up a midas 1 hour before closing...throw the guy 20 bucks and bring equip to do a tranny oil change...

if you want to give another go...get a oxy-acetelyne torch at your local home depot...(it is the 2 tanks...one is oxygen) heat up the nut...then have a squirt bottle and cool her down...repeat...4-5 cycles...should break the nut loose...

DISREGARD if your case is magnesium...

billwagnon · 08-26-2002, 01:06 PM

I think welding would be difficult - first because it's upside down welding, second because the oil in the tranny is going to be a great heat sink.

I vote for the drill out method.

You're sure you're turning it the right way? (that's the mistake I always make! )

Jocke · Jocke's Garage

Have you tried with only heat??

Heating up the material makes it increase and then it should go much easier.

Another thing to do is to cool the drain plugg down(with a freezing-spray) and the material draws together..Same, same but different you now.

Good Luck anyway you choose!

"I would not go for the drilling anyway!

/J

billwagnon · 08-26-2002, 01:16 PM

I'm changing my vote to the heat/cold method.

Good luck!

911pcars · 08-26-2002, 01:22 PM

My vote is to call in an on-location welder. You pay your $$ to have it professionally welded, you apply that money toward watching a pro do it, plus you get to ask him innane but valuable welding questions on your nickel ... don't be surprised if he charges you more for harassing him with questions :-), and if he gets the old plug out, you won't be stuck at the muffler shop with a removed drain plug and a cross-threaded drain hole to deal with because you'll be ...... at home.

Don't try an ez-out unless it's as big as the drain plug. It'll break. You don't want to weld a nut onto a drain plug AND a broken ez-out.

Regards,
Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars