What's up with the 2,7L engine, really ? - Page 2

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Bruce Anderson and others are (or I should say were as he passed away) basing his advice NOT on anecdotes, but on long experience with large samples of engines.

This would be akin to clinical experience as a medical analogy.

Anyone interested can easily read back thru old copies of UpFixin'

Eagledriver · 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerome74911S

Like many reputations of all sorts, half (or more) of what is believed about 2.7s is fiction. It's like anything else, something alarming happens and hits the news at some point, and then that alarming quality is the 'truth' about all other specimens of the thing. It doesn't matter if you are talking about car engines, or coconuts, people tend to tar them all with the same brush - it makes their lives simpler being able to assign one notion to every example of something. It's an unreliable prejudice.

I have never seen solid numbers quantifying 2.7 failures, just vague proclamations. What stats? They are not all bad, and never were - it's a myth.

As is often pointed out, every engine series within the timeframe that this forum considers has had 'issues' of differing sorts. None are perfect. My 2.7 has been rebuilt with the complete list of 'corrections' and 'updates' always mentioned here and it runs great. Did it actually need them? I don't know, but it runs fine now and is plenty fun. The rest is ancient history.

I had a 2.7 engine in my car and loved it. However, if the 2.7 in question has not had timecerts/case savers installed it is a big risk to buy. There is a reason you won't see people on here saying they love their 75-77 911 with original non rebuilt engine. 74's can last but are still a risk.

-Andy

Jerome74911S · 02-02-2014, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

Bruce Anderson and others are (or I should say were as he passed away) basing his advice NOT on anecdotes, but on long experience with large samples of engines.

This would be akin to clinical experience as a medical analogy.

Anyone interested can easily read back thru old copies of UpFixin'

Yes, I'm sure that is true. However, only engines with problems get noticed and rebuilt. Those that are running fine don't go to the doctor.

bgyglfr · 02-02-2014, 11:57 AM

Here's an anecdote. I have a rat turd (literally) 1975 2.7 motor that I bought as a core. Never been rebuilt. I popped it in my 73 just to see if I could get it running? It pulls nearly as well as the 3.0 I just pulled out of the car. Doesn't even leak! I truly believe the issues with these motors have much much more to do with temperature control than anything else. I'm going to leave this motor in until I get time/money together to build the original 2.4. I am sure I got lucky but my point is there are still some original 2.7 motors out there that haven't pulled the studs out. I will be running a front cooler and webers tuned slightly rich. I'm curios to see how long it lasts.

manbridge 74 · 02-02-2014, 01:03 PM

According to the build date on my car the OE studs and corresponding holes turn 40 this month.

manbridge 74 · 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

Bruce Anderson and others are (or I should say were as he passed away) basing his advice NOT on anecdotes, but on long experience with large samples of engines.

This would be akin to clinical experience as a medical analogy.

Anyone interested can easily read back thru old copies of UpFixin'

How large a sample might never be known. And many of those were guys pushing heat limits on track.

What is known is that he couldn't have possibly worked on every one.

Daves911L · Daves911L's Garage

I always thought 2.7 owners should have gotten a class action suit going against Mr. Anderson He pretty much destroyed the value of everyones' 2.7 for 25 years.

The funny thing is that none of the 2.7 fixes are difficult, or even particularly costly. All the models have had their issues over the years. How many of you guys remember the mysterious oiling/temperature issues when the SC was introduced. Porsche replaced more than a few (statistics?) brand spanking new 3 liter motors before that one got figured out.

Jeff, I am impressed that you have no pulled threads on your original motor. Figured they had all been done by now.

fanaudical · fanaudical's Garage

I have a 7R mag-case 2.7 that I rebuilt with all the "fixes" (time-certs, OE steel head studs, line bore, planarized spigot mounts, oil bypass mod, bigger oil pump, added front cooler, followed Supertec's excellent case-sealing advice, hydraulic tensioners, turbo covers, lots of balancing, etc). It was not an inexpensive rebuild. I rebuilt this in the stock CIS configuration and the thing has plenty of power and pull. Not a single leak or oil drip. I'm very happy with the result. (Now if I could just get the rest of the car sorted appropriately...)

rbogh901 · 02-02-2014, 04:49 PM

One thing about the 2.7 vs 3.6 discussion that only rare comes up is the spirited character of a sporty 2.7. Yes a 3.6 has more horsepower, more torque, etc but, as an owner of both I have to say that the 2.7 just loves to spin in a way that the larger displacement motor doesn't. Maybe with a bunch of work a 3.6 will do it too but the 2.7 is a real blast.

I bought mine from a good friend who sold it because the motor was on borrowed time and figure that I'll refresh it one of these days. Meanwhile it has already had the bulk of the updates and although I don't race it I have enjoyed relatively problem free sport driving for 20 years. That's 20 years since he thought it was about to blow.

I change the oil etc and that's about it. It gets parked when the snow flies. It hasn't been a ton of miles but I have driven it back and forth from Utah to Oregon and would not hesitate to do so again.

Nico911 · 02-02-2014, 05:58 PM

Thanks again guys.

dave 911 · dave 911's Garage

I've owned my 76 since 1984, engine has never been rebuilt. I bought it from the original owner in San Diego, who very wisely removed the thermal reactors and installed an 11 blade fan and front mounted oil cooler. It continues to be a blast to drive.

I'm sure it will need a rebuild at some point, and I plan to do all of the 'correct' fixes noted previously, to keep it 'numbers matching'.

Having driven quite a few other later 911 models, I also think the combination of the 2.7 w/ the light 'middie' body and lack of modern 'extras' make these cars great fun. And easy to work on.

june82000 · june82000's Garage

I'm new to the 911 crowd and currently restoring a '74 coupe - what kind of gas mileage do you all experience from these engines? Just curious...

O' yeah"74 · O' yeah"74's Garage

I get an average of 20 mpg.

I'm curious to see what others get.

june82000 · june82000's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by O' yeah"74

I get an average of 20 mpg.

I'm curious to see what others get.

I wonder if your high altitude has an effect at all? I guess with MFI, maybe not?

Uncle Enzo · Uncle Enzo's Garage

Im running carbs and avg around 16-18mpg.

june82000 · june82000's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Enzo

Im running carbs and avg around 16-18mpg.

Do you have the thermactors installed on your engine? Nice looking middie btw; I like the green color and the blacked-out window frame look.

Howard M · 02-03-2014, 05:38 AM

I always look forward to adding my 2 cents to these mid-year discussions. I bought my stock 1976 911S in 1983. I believe the original owner had valve guides done. Other than that the engine has had no internal work. I've done several external upgrades (74 SSI's, 11 blade fan, front oil cooler, hydro tensioners, etc). Only '76 California cars and all '77's had thermal reactors. The poor Calif cars have to keep their reactors on to pass inspection. Do ANY other 2.7's still have reactors?? Mid year cars are lighter and narrower (autocross!) than SC's and they pull like a diesel at low rpms.

About 20 years ago I wrote a letter to Bruce Anderson after he authored another article trashing the 2.7's. My point was that if they were really that bad (those cars were already 20 years old by then) haven't they already failed and been fixed? Or, if they hadn't failed yet, how much longer did they have to last for him to finally bless them? Bruce wrote back with a defense of his recommendations. A real gentleman whom we all miss. Anyway, my argument is even more to the point 20 years later.

Yes, my 911 leaks about two drops/week, starts every day, never lets me down and is an autocross winner. It's the most rewarding purchase I've ever made. YMMV!

Lapkritis · Lapkritis's Garage

Probably fewer failures today with the updates on many remaining examples and the few survivors aren't tracked without updates like the examples back in the days Bruce saw with so many issues.

Uncle Enzo · Uncle Enzo's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by june82000

Do you have the thermactors installed on your engine? Nice looking middie btw; I like the green color and the blacked-out window frame look.

I do not. All that junk is long since gone.

Reifle · Reifle's Garage

My '77 had a rebuild (P/O) about 8,000 miles ago. I have owner this car since 2010 and drive it a lot. I enjoy it just way she is and it has plenty of power. Since I like going through the gears the mileage isn't that great. I think I am around the 15-18 mpg range. I have driven other newer and older Porsches but I come back to mine and like it very much.