comparison costs: shop engine rebuild vs DIY rebuild

[bob tilton]

FenderGuy started a really great topic that lead me to post this one. however his question was very specific to his situation. i thought i would start an additional topic that was more general and also didn't want to hi-jack his topic.

Whats the going rate for engine rebuilds ?

anyway - looking for actual final figures and the extent of the work involved. list other facts such as necessary modifications required.

just the facts - not interested in the debates. detach yourself .

[yelcab1]

1996 prices for a DIY valve job on an 84 cab.

$175 gasket set (top only)
$400 valve job on 6 heads
$180 for 6 new rocker arm
$20 replacement of one broken ring
$60 head temp sensor
$200 for engine stand-yoke
$75 for cam holding tool
$100 for indicator, extension, Z block
$100 for 5 new head studs
$100 for miscellaneuos stuff

Total: $1410 for a rock-bottom DIY Valve job. I remember spending about $2000 but forgot now where the $600 went.

[magilla]

Tools and beer.....

[Superman]

Exhaust valves for my car are around $50 unless you can find a better price. Intakes are $25 or so. At 182K miles my valve stems were out of spec, so valves alone can cost upwards of $500. Labor for seat grinding, guide replacement, etc, probably half a day. Couple hundred dollars or so in seals, gaskets, etc. Rings, main bearings, rod bearings, are each nearly $100.

Rods and pistons might need machining/wrist pin bushings. New P&C sets are breathtaking at $2000 - $3000.

So, for a DIY full rebuild, including machining and parts, can easily be $6000. If you use existing P&Cs like I did (they were in spec....check the "Re Ring Alusil" thread on the Engine Rebuild forum), then you can conceivable do this for something like $2000.

[targa80]

DIY engine rebuild included valves, rings one piston and cylinder, gaskets, bearings,carrera tensioners, machine shop work plus specialty tools I.E. Compressor, air tools, Cam shaft socket and anything I need that I did not already own. Total out of pocket $7,000.00. Two months of week nights and weekends working on it. knowledge learned and satisfaction in accomplishing the task was well worth the money. Added bonus no oil leaks from the engine.

[ChrisBennet]

The last set of SC heads I had done were $722 including return shipping. That included all new valves and a couple of exhaust studs replaced.
-Chris

[88911coupe]

I'd think you could sell the engine yoke and cam holding tool, thereby recovering some costs. I wouldn't think these things would "wear out" after one rebuild.

[Evans, Marv]

Can't remember all the costs for my 2.7L, but I remember some of it, and the approximate final cost. I disassembled the engine, bought the pieces & parts, had the machine work done & engine assembled. I'll be putting it in my '69. Generally:
'77S long block - $700
JE Pistons - $950
Nikasil Cylinders - $1,700
Coatings (pistons, chambers, bearings, etc.) - $750
Machine work, assembly & extra pieces & parts - $2,400
Valves & heads - Don't remember
At the end, it came pretty close to $8K. I wasn't too happy when I finally added it up, but it will be a good engine. I wanted to do what I could to have a good running engine that would last a long time.

[yelcab1]

Originally posted by 88911coupe
I'd think you could sell the engine yoke and cam holding tool, thereby recovering some costs. I wouldn't think these things would "wear out" after one rebuild.

No self respecting home mechanic would consider selling his tools !

Seriously, I have used that engine yoke again last week on my 80SC, as well as the dial indicator. Lost my extension so had to buy another (that was an ordeal altogether). Cam holding tool sorta worked on the Lexus camshaft sprocket (the first time), but the second time the pins broke (stupid of me to use a Porsche tool on a Toyota). So I had to buy the correct sprocket holding tool for a Toyota too.

Summary, you buy more tools, you don't sell your old tools. Now I gotta buy those crowfoot and camtool for the SC too. Anyone want to sell theirs?

[bob tilton]

marv evans' reply hits closest to home for me. i would like to stuff a 2.7S engine in my car. i was thinking about buying a core and rebuilding it myself. it seems that buying a properly rebuilt engine from a reputable shop is the most cost effective route. i remember shops like supertec selling rebuilt engines, 2.0S and 2.7, for $6K.
mark - how do you like your finished engine?

[willcall]

I too am looking down the barrel of a rebuild.
I want to do it myself for the experience & personal development of patience.

I currently have zero specialists tools for the job, not even an engine yoke.

So, I will have to buy a heap of tools first.

Can someone give me an idea on costs?
I have been looking through pelican parts & see many items but not sure if everything is covered.

1. Cost of tools for the job

2. Cost of parts (sealants, seals, P & C's)
- I'm upgrading from 8.5:1 CR to 9.5


3. Cost of outsourced machining etc.


Cheers, Will

[cmcfaul]

I did the top end once then the bottom later. I was able to borrow all the specialized tools, Yoke, stand, Crows foot, cam socket, stud removal tool, etc both times. Fellow Porsche folks are more than happy to help. It was VERY enjoyable and rewarding.

The cost will be more then you expect as the machine shop costs and while in there costs add up quickly. Some tools need to be added to your tool box like quality torque wrench, dial gages and wiggly sockets (not sure what they are called but make getting the heat exchangers on and off very easy).

Had I to do again would do it the same way. It's a little scary but take your time, take lots of pics to check your work later and enjoy the process.

Cost wise, you probably save 1/3 so again likely not as much as you might expect as machine work will be full retail and I took the approach of if in doubt replace.

Chris
72 911 E

[toddu]

You'll save $3-4k in labor. Parts, machining will be the same regardless.

Todd

[HarryD]

For a DIY job, you essentially save only the Mechanics labor costs as you (or he) will need to buy the parts and get the machine work done. From what I have been able to gather, expect about 40 hours of labor.

[willcall]

40hrs, not too bad. Was expecting it to be 100 or so.

[r-mm]

I posted my DIY top end+ notes here: Home 3.2 top end rebuild: Costs, Thoughts & Lessons Learned

Here's a copy of my spreadsheet. I did a lot of comparison shopping and got some pretty good deals on parts. Full top end rebuild, all gaskets, 12 lower headstuds, most motronic sensors new clutch and G50 arm update, injectors cleaned and balanced and a few misc extras. All stock. No rings. Included project specific tools too.