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-   -   Rookie Engine Drop & Reseal, G50 Carrera Cab (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/796456-rookie-engine-drop-reseal-g50-carrera-cab.html)

whiz05403 02-19-2014 03:50 AM

My flywheel seal looked exactly the same, many a pelican said to still replace it since it's a wear item. So I did.

Jcslocum 02-19-2014 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7917535)
Jcslocum,

The hose shop was a bust. My first step is to go through BoxsterGT. Don't know what his backlog looks like, though.

Did you cut those fittings off with a dremel, and then clamp on new hose with the Oetiker clamps? How "fool proof" is that? I'm not afraid to experiment, but dicing with the fuel hoses makes me nervous. The cost of failure seems inordinate.

Yes, I sliced the old ferrule on both sides and peeled them off. The Oetiker clamps are a very good device for this application. The are perfect circle type of clamps and apply a lot of clamp force. They also have a spring effect as things expand and contract, so they stay tight. I tested them in my garage are at 100psi air pressure for 24 hours. I saw zero bubbles with air. Our FI operates in the 40 psi range (approx) so I feel good. I did my me-search and went with it. You should make your own research and make your own decision. You can get the proper FI hose locally. It is not the German hose that Len uses but it's used here in the USA made by Gates.

Smoove1010 02-19-2014 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7917535)
Did you cut those fittings off with a dremel, and then clamp on new hose with the Oetiker clamps? How "fool proof" is that? I'm not afraid to experiment, but dicing with the fuel hoses makes me nervous. The cost of failure seems inordinate.

If you go this route, be sure to use SAE 30R9 high pressure FI hose. There's a lot of 30R7 out there, but it's not what you want. Oddly, I found it difficult to find the 30R9 at the big chains, but a local mom-and-pop auto parts store had spools of Gates Barricade.

There are dozens of fuel-line-replacement threads on the forum - you could spend an evening searching, reading, and learning on this one topic alone.

Having said all that, if you have the least bit of apprehension on this, stick with Len's solution - your peace of mind will thank you for it.

rusnak 02-19-2014 09:13 AM

The ideal time to change the crankshaft seal is before it fails, if it's old, and it's sort of right in front of you on a engine that you just dropped with the flywheel off and it's going to take you like 5 minutes now.

COLB 02-20-2014 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 7919933)
The ideal time to change the crankshaft seal is before it fails, if it's old, and it's sort of right in front of you on a engine that you just dropped with the flywheel off and it's going to take you like 5 minutes now.

Yeah, I'm changing it. Now I just have to sort out the mechanics of it, given the variety of recommendations. I think I am going to freeze it, go dry on the outside rim, with a little moly grease on the inside -- using 4" PVC to seat it. Or should it be motor oil on the inside?

If I screw it up and it leaks, I will kick myself.

My remaining work, in order:

- Finish cleaning trans & external motor
- Verify cleanliness & airflow of #4 & #6 cylinder cooling fins
- Remount rear engine tin & motor mount brace (get better tension on fan belt)
- Install driver side cam oil line (must remount rear tin first)
- Pull & inspect plugs
- Remove valve covers & inspect headstuds & rocker seals
- Adjust valves
- Perform leakdown test
- Re-do leakdown test is the results suck (cry like a girl if the second test is just as bad)
- Install new valve covers
- Install new plugs
- Install new RPM sensors (x2)
- Clean, test & reinstall Oil Cooler with new seals.
- Install new fuel lines (from Len Cummings)
- Replace Oil & vacuum hoses
- Reinstall side & rear engine tin
- Recrimp speedometer spade connector (damaged on removal)
- Replace broken 14-pin connector bracket (damaged on removal)
- Replace crankshaft seal
- Re-install flywheel with new bolts
- Re-install clutch disk & pressure plate
- Clean, relube, and re-install cross-shaft with new needle bearings
- Re-Mount transmission with high temp grease on the splines
- Jack up car
- Reinstall Engine & transmission, re-installing the slave cylinder before mounting the eng/trans
- Re-install CVs, replacing stripped bolts
- Hook up everything, and check it twice
- Install new Fuel Filter
- Install new Air Filter
- Refill transmission with Mobil 1 DELVAC gear oil
- Refill engine with Valvoline VR1 5W20 Racing Oil
- Reinstall battery with new clamp
- Start her up & search for leaks -- especially at fuel hoses & filter. Fix what I missed.
- Take a test drive
- Search for leaks; tighten what is leaking
- Drink a glass of Johnny Walker Blue

What did I miss?

GaryR 02-20-2014 10:35 AM

I'll say what my shop says - The crankshafts seal(s) go in dry on the outside, engine oil on the sealing lip.. You can put a paper thin layer of Curil-T on the outside to fill in any imperfections (if there are any) but if its nice don't bother. If the crank/alt pulley is off, do that one too!

And NOT a Reinz seal, either Elring Klinger (my 1st choice) or Porsche..

One minor change to your list-

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7921880)
- Say a prayer to the exhaust head stud gods, remove valve covers & inspect headstuds & rocker seals


COLB 02-20-2014 11:07 AM

It is an Elring seal.

And use engine oil, not grease. Got it.

The alt pulley is not off, so the front seal will remain as is for now.

GaryR 02-20-2014 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7922065)
It is an Elring seal.

And use engine oil, not grease. Got it.

The alt pulley is not off, so the front seal will remain as is for now.

I believe you can actually do that one in-car, so if it's dry now not a big deal. Just much easier now... :D

rusnak 02-20-2014 11:31 AM

That's a good list. I'd give a thought to looking at the rear brake hoses. If you ever do need to replace the intake gaskets, they are much easier to replace now - but you should also change the spacer blocks too. Make sure that you don't have to force the intake into place or you'll have leaks.

jmills 02-20-2014 12:19 PM

I replaced the cam oil lines on both sides when I had the motor out. When I replaced the driver's side, the smaller metal tube that connects to the cam line (about the middle) did not line up properly. The connection point on the cam oil line was different than the old line and was off by about an inch. I talked to Pelican and they said that Porsche had redesigned the metal line and I needed to order a new one of those too. I'm not sure if your 911 is different since it is newer, but thought I would mention it. Someone with more expertise might could chime in.

I am referring to the connection point circled in yellow. The second picture is the new line that Porsche redesigned.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389717392.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389717542.jpg

COLB 02-20-2014 12:49 PM

Quote:

That's a good list. I'd give a thought to looking at the rear brake hoses.
Thanks for the reminder -- I forgot that I have new brake hoses enroute for all for corners. Need to add that to my list.

Quote:

The connection point on the cam oil line was different than the old line and was off by about an inch. I talked to Pelican and they said that Porsche had redesigned the metal line and I needed to order a new one of those too. I'm not sure if your 911 is different since it is newer, but thought I would mention it.
This is going to piss me off to no end if true! I need to double check it tonight. The passenger's side fit fine.

The $11 shipping on every "one more thing" order I make is starting to crush my morale.

Thanks for the tip.

zippy_gg 02-20-2014 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7922257)
Quote:
The connection point on the cam oil line was different than the old line and was off by about an inch. I talked to Pelican and they said that Porsche had redesigned the metal line and I needed to order a new one of those too. I'm not sure if your 911 is different since it is newer, but thought I would mention it.

This is going to piss me off to no end if true! I need to double check it tonight. The passenger's side fit fine.

The $11 shipping on every "one more thing" order I make is starting to crush my morale.

Thanks for the tip.

Nothing an inexpensive tube bending tool cannot handle. I had the same issue with the new part and my buddy Jim offered me (thanks Jim!;)) the HF tool.

jmills 02-20-2014 01:07 PM

My passenger side fit fine too.

You will probably have to install or loosely install to see if the old line and new line are different. It will be obvious if you lightly connect the line in place. It is hard to tell with the old line still installed.

The redesigned metal line was my second to last "this has to be my last order". :mad: I kept finding random stuff to buy to get my order above $35 for free shipping. Belts, wiper blades, etc.

If you have to make another order, you might want to get the gaskets that fit between the axles and the transmission. I didn't realize that there was a cork gasket here until I was reinstalling and it was too late at that point. The old gaskets went back on with my reinstall.

Smoove1010 02-20-2014 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippy_gg (Post 7922294)
Nothing an inexpensive tube bending tool cannot handle. I had the same issue with the new part and my buddy Jim offered me (thanks Jim!;)) the HF tool.

The old line is easily bent into the new position. I did it gently with just thumbs and fingers being sure to spread the bend along the length of the pipe. Nothing to be skeered of.

COLB 02-22-2014 06:55 PM

Got several big boxes of parts on Friday, and I am putting on a full court press over the weekend. The key missing pieces are the crankshaft seal and the fuel lines, which I ended up ordering from Len Cummings.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...221_194606.jpg

First task was to finish cleaning the transmission -- spent about 2 hours on that.

Second task was remounting the rear tin, and the left side camp oil line. A bit of a chore, but it came together ok. As predicted, the oil line was a little different from the original one, but nothing a little light bending didn't fix. I was careful to make sure I didn't crimp the cable:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z...222_115509.jpg

Next I ripped out the old sound pad -- and it was nastier than I expected. Apart from turning to powder under pressure, I also found this nice stockpile leftover from the previous owner:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-b...222_105524.jpg

Yep. That's dogfood. Collected and stashed by field mice when it was parked and rarely driven in the PO's garage. I've also found chewed acorns in the smugglers box and other odd corners. No evidence of chewed wires, though -- guess they had enough to eat. I scraped off as much as I could, then vacuumed, and some soapy water to clean up the grease and oil on the back sills. Then let it dry and moved on.

I reinstalled the oil cooler with new seals, and than started on the RPM sensors. I picked up the BMW versions for $58 apiece. after a couple of days of spraying with PB Blaster, the hex nuts broke loose, so I was confident this would be a five minute job:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-B...222_135140.jpg

No such luck. Nothing is ever easy. The top sensor came out with not issues, but the bottom was was seized tight.

I could make the plastic at the top of the sensor move with vise grips, but it would not back out. I tried tapping with a hammer, and that backed it out a couple of millimeters, but no farther, and the aluminum tip mushroomed. I crushed it down with vise grips, and could get it to turn in the mount, but still not back out.

I ended up cutting the tip off with a dremel, to try and hammer out the sensor with a punch -- but still no luck. After almost two hours dicking with it, I cut both ends off, and hammered out the magnet, but the aluminum was galled in the mount. I had to take an old screwdriver and a hammer and chisel out the last ring of aluminum fused in the mount:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I...222_152312.jpg

What a PITA. No wonder someone suggested some anti-seize on it! I took a copper barrel brush from my gun cleaning kit to clean out the mount hole, and then was able to finally re-install the new sensors:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F...222_155526.jpg

I am going to have to carefully check the mounting gaps because I had to hammer on the mount pretty hard. Just glad I didn't break it.

This nut roll kept me from getting anything else done today. Hoping to get the valves adjusted tomorrow, along with a leak down test, new plugs, reinstall the rest of the engine tin, and glue in the new sound pad.

GaryR 02-23-2014 08:19 AM

Keep up the good work! Good choice with using Len, I hope to have all my lines back from him this week. He was out of the J line, "luckily" Pelican had 1 in stock. I say "luckily" because it was double the cost of Len's replacement!

COLB 02-24-2014 06:02 PM

Sunday I tackled adjusting the valves, and some other minor fixes.

Valve covers came off, and everything inside looked pretty straight. All of the rockers were fully seated, and had no evidence of leaks. No obvious head stud issues:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...223_154515.jpg

Not going to go into a lot of detail about the valve adjustment -- I followed the instructions in the tech article without any issues. In general I adjusted them to were there was clear friction on both the top & bottom of the (slightly piled) gauge, but some were a slightly tighter fit than others. I went through a second time to check, and everything seemed straight. Will only know for certain when the car runs.

Prior to setting the clearances, I wiped down the valve covers and popped them in the dishwasher -- they came out nice and clean. I laid them flat on the granite to make sure they were not warped.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C...223_154521.jpg

Then I used some fine steel wool on the heads to smooth off the gunk to get a good mating surface. Put on the new silicon bead gaskets, seated all the nuts in a rotating pattern, then torqued them to 8 ft/lbs. If they drip I can always tighten them up a bit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...223_160953.jpg

With the valve covers in place, I took care of two additional jobs. I glued in the new sound pad with 3M Weatherstrip glue:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U...223_154603.jpg

and replaced the rear soft brake lines with braided stainless steel ones. These were very reasonable, and I bough the DOT approved ones for just a little more. Relatively simple screw on fix, although the driver's side hard did NOT want to thread in, and i probably fiddled around with it for 30 minutes before I could get it screwed on. It mate a 30 minute job an hour+. A fair bit of brake fluid dripped out as well, but they is no biggie because I am flushing all the old fluid after I do the front lines. I took car not to touch the pair with my fluid-covered gloves. The rubber fittings that mount the pad wear sensor lines came apart when I disconnected them to access the brake lines. zip ties will fix that. Here are the new lines:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3...223_154543.jpg

Next I pulled the #1 plug to do a leakdown test. The instructions with the Harbor Freight test set were pretty vague, and I couldn't make it work. It was getting late, so I didn't bother digging around for more detailed instructions. I later determined that you have to set the gauge to zero BEFORE attaching the hose that you've screwed into the head. I will try it again this weekend.

But the good news is that all of the plugs look great, and very uniform. They are a little brown, with no white/grey residue indicating a lean condition, or any signs of fouling from burning oil:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f...223_171620.jpg

I could have put them back in, but I already bought replacements, so I put them in. Most of the advice is to not use platinum plugs in these motors if they are stock, so I went with the NGK BPR6ES, which is a copper plug, and a fit according to our host. I will keep these Bosch plugs in case the NGK cause problems -- they only have about 10k miles on them:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_...223_172505.jpg

I notice that the electrode on the Bosch plugs are a little longer. Does that make a difference?

So to review, here is my list, with accomplished tasks in bold:

- Finish cleaning trans & external motor
- Verify cleanliness & airflow of #4 & #6 cylinder cooling fins
- Remount rear engine tin & motor mount brace (get better tension on fan belt)
- Install driver side cam oil line (must remount rear tin first)
- Pull & inspect plugs
- Remove valve covers & inspect headstuds & rocker seals
- Adjust valves

- Perform leakdown test
- Re-do leakdown test is the results suck (cry like a girl if the second test is just as bad)
- Install new valve covers
- Install new plugs
- Install new RPM sensors (x2)
- Clean, test & reinstall Oil Cooler with new seals.
- Replace rear brake lines
- Replace engine bay sound pad

- Install new fuel lines (from Len Cummings)
- Replace Oil & vacuum hoses
- Reinstall side & rear engine tin
- Recrimp speedometer spade connector (damaged on removal)
- Replace broken 14-pin connector bracket (damaged on removal)
- Replace crankshaft seal
- Re-install flywheel with new bolts
- Re-install clutch disk & pressure plate
- Clean, relube, and re-install cross-shaft with new needle bearings
- Re-Mount transmission with high temp grease on the splines
- Jack up car
- Reinstall Engine & transmission, re-installing the slave cylinder before mounting the eng/trans
- Re-install CVs, replacing stripped bolts
- Hook up everything, and check it twice
- Install new Fuel Filter
- Install new Air Filter
- Refill transmission with Mobil 1 DELVAC gear oil
- Refill engine with Valvoline VR1 5W20 Racing Oil
- Replace front soft brake lines
- Flush old brake fluid with new and bleed brakes
- Reinstall battery with new clamp
- Start her up & search for leaks -- especially at fuel hoses & filter. Fix what I missed.
- Take a test drive
- Search for leaks; tighten what is leaking
- Drink a glass of Johnny Walker Blue

Pretty good progress, and most of the hard stuff is done. I am expecting my fuel lines and crankshaft seal in the mail tomorrow. I may get a couple of hours in after work and do the fuel lines, the engine tin, and the damaged connectors.

There is a slight chance i get it all back together this weekend, but it will take a big push. Thanks for all the help so far.

I expect I will be leaning on the community for questions about "where does this part go?" An example: I found a spring sitting on the engine and don't remember taking it off. It looks a lot like the throttle return spring -- which is still in place. Maybe the PO's mechanic dropped it and just installed another one rather than fishing for it with the motor still in the car?

I guess I'll find out!

COLB 02-24-2014 06:03 PM

Sunday I tackled adjusting the valves, and some other minor fixes.

Valve covers came off, and everything inside looked pretty straight. All of the rockers were fully seated, and had no evidence of leaks. No obvious head stud issues:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...223_154515.jpg

Not going to go into a lot of detail about the valve adjustment -- I followed the instructions in the tech article without any issues. In general I adjusted them to where there was clear friction on both the top & bottom of the (slightly oiled) gauge, but some were a slightly tighter fit than others. I went through a second time to check, and everything seemed straight. Will only know for certain when the car runs.

Prior to setting the clearances, I wiped down the valve covers and popped them in the dishwasher -- they came out nice and clean. I laid them flat on the granite to make sure they were not warped.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C...223_154521.jpg

Then I used some fine steel wool on the heads to smooth off the gunk to get a good mating surface. Put on the new silicon bead gaskets, seated all the nuts in a rotating pattern, then torqued them to 8 ft/lbs. If they drip I can always tighten them up a bit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...223_160953.jpg

With the valve covers in place, I took care of two additional jobs. I glued in the new sound pad with 3M Weatherstrip glue:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U...223_154603.jpg

and replaced the rear soft brake lines with braided stainless steel ones. These were very reasonable, and I bought the DOT approved ones for just a little more. Relatively simple screw on fix, although the driver's side hard did NOT want to thread in, and i probably fiddled around with it for 30 minutes before I could get it screwed on. It made a 30 minute job an hour+. A fair bit of brake fluid dripped out as well, but they is no biggie because I am flushing all the old fluid after I do the front lines. I took care not to touch the paint with my fluid-covered gloves. The rubber fittings that mount the pad-wear sensor lines came apart when I disconnected them to access the brake lines. zip ties will fix that. Here are the new lines:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3...223_154543.jpg

Next I pulled the #1 plug to do a leakdown test. The instructions with the Harbor Freight test set were pretty vague, and I couldn't make it work. It was getting late, so I didn't bother digging around for more detailed instructions. I later determined that you have to set the gauge to zero BEFORE attaching the hose that you've screwed into the head. I will try it again this weekend.

But the good news is that all of the plugs look great, and very uniform. They are a little brown, with no white/grey residue indicating a lean condition, or any signs of fouling from burning oil:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f...223_171620.jpg

I could have put them back in, but I already bought replacements, so I put them in. Most of the advice is to not use platinum plugs in these motors if they are stock, so I went with the NGK BPR6ES, which is a copper plug, and a fit according to our host. I will keep these Bosch plugs in case the NGK cause problems -- they only have about 10k miles on them:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_...223_172505.jpg

I notice that the electrode on the Bosch plugs are a little longer. Does that make a difference?

So to review, here is my list, with accomplished tasks in bold:

- Finish cleaning trans & external motor
- Verify cleanliness & airflow of #4 & #6 cylinder cooling fins
- Remount rear engine tin & motor mount brace (get better tension on fan belt)
- Install driver side cam oil line (must remount rear tin first)
- Pull & inspect plugs
- Remove valve covers & inspect headstuds & rocker seals
- Adjust valves

- Perform leakdown test
- Re-do leakdown test is the results suck (cry like a girl if the second test is just as bad)
- Install new valve covers
- Install new plugs
- Install new RPM sensors (x2)
- Clean, test & reinstall Oil Cooler with new seals.
- Replace rear brake lines
- Replace engine bay sound pad

- Install new fuel lines (from Len Cummings)
- Replace Oil & vacuum hoses
- Reinstall side & rear engine tin
- Recrimp speedometer spade connector (damaged on removal)
- Replace broken 14-pin connector bracket (damaged on removal)
- Replace crankshaft seal
- Re-install flywheel with new bolts
- Re-install clutch disk & pressure plate
- Clean, relube, and re-install cross-shaft with new needle bearings
- Re-Mount transmission with high temp grease on the splines
- Jack up car
- Reinstall Engine & transmission, re-installing the slave cylinder before mounting the eng/trans
- Re-install CVs, replacing stripped bolts
- Hook up everything, and check it twice
- Install new Fuel Filter
- Install new Air Filter
- Refill transmission with Mobil 1 DELVAC gear oil
- Refill engine with Valvoline VR1 5W20 Racing Oil
- Replace front soft brake lines
- Flush old brake fluid with new and bleed brakes
- Reinstall battery with new clamp
- Start her up & search for leaks -- especially at fuel hoses & filter. Fix what I missed.
- Take a test drive
- Search for leaks; tighten what is leaking
- Drink a glass of Johnny Walker Blue

Pretty good progress, and most of the hard stuff is done. I am expecting my fuel lines and crankshaft seal in the mail tomorrow. I may get a couple of hours in after work and do the fuel lines, the engine tin, and the damaged connectors.

There is a slight chance i get it all back together this weekend, but it will take a big push. Thanks for all the help so far.

I expect I will be leaning on the community for questions about "where does this part go?" An example: I found a spring sitting on the engine and don't remember taking it off. It looks a lot like the throttle return spring -- which is still in place. Maybe the PO's mechanic dropped it and just installed another one rather than fishing for it with the motor still in the car?

I guess I'll find out!

COLB 02-25-2014 05:34 AM

BTW -- I am very glad I did the valve adjustment. All the valves were very tight -- you couldn't fit the gauge in without first loosening the adjustment screw -- then by wiggling the end you could feel it snap apart.

Question -- what is the effect of driving the car with the valves too tight? I assume this would keep them slightly open, robbing you of compression -- and maybe burning more oil?

Also, if they don't seat fully, they can't sink heat into the head -- and may overheat & crack/burn.

I am curious if the PO's mechanic just cranked them down too tight, or they tightened over time (around 15k miles).

Hnichols 02-25-2014 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLB (Post 7930010)
BTW -- I am very glad I did the valve adjustment. All the valves were very tight -- you couldn't fit the gauge in without first loosening the adjustment screw -- then by wiggling the end you could feel it snap apart.

Question -- what is the effect of driving the car with the valves too tight? I assume this would keep them slightly open, robbing you of compression -- and maybe burning more oil?

Also, if they don't seat fully, they can't sink heat into the head -- and may overheat & crack/burn.

I am curious if the PO's mechanic just cranked them down too tight, or they tightened over time (around 15k miles).

From what I've heard, they have to quite far out of adjustment to overheat and crack. And given the awkwardness of wedging in the feeler gauge -- I'm assuming you used the standard method -- they may not have been as outrageously tight as you think. Others more knowledgeable can confirm or correct this, though.


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