An AFR meter on the cheap ?

[kshafer1]

I use the Innovate LM-2 with a bung welded prior to the CAT to tune my '79SC. Not the cheapest solution, but it has worked well for me.

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by nitram

a $5 serial port to usb adapter will solve that problem....

I have one but it has not worked on anything else.

[Lapkritis]

It's the same dongle that Autronic/Megasquirt used for years and years. Staples sells them if you don't want to buy a super cheapo version off eBay.

[dicklague]

a serial port? Really!!

No one has used those in 5 to 8 years. I would have thought the Innovate design was much newer than that! Just surprising. And then you need the right driver for the serial to usb port? That has been my experience.....maybe the new ones just work.

they have good market share and brand presence. They remind me of MSD not much new innovation just pump out the old stuff.

Oh their name is INNOVATE ummmmm

end of rant!!

[Lapkritis]

A lot of companies still use them actually... Cisco for one. Millions still in use.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

A lot of companies still use them actually... Cisco for one. Millions still in use.

not on a consumer product though.

I have one on my 13 year old laptop.....but it has many USB ports too.

Serial is inexcusable on a modern (?) computer instrument.....in MY opinion.

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by dicklague

not on a consumer product though.

I have on on my 13 year old laptop.....but it has many USB ports too.

Serial is inexcusable on a modern (?) computer instrument.....in MY opinion.

FYI: The 'S' in USB... is 'serial'. There's nothing to excuse really. I use a serial to Bluetooth adapter for one of my cars and plan it on another for ecu tuning. Doesn't matter to me if it's a universal or standard serial connection on the other end in my experience. Function is what counts when designing a global product. Only beef is when folks don't know what they're talking about and whine. Hence...

[Tippy]

Quote de Lapkritis

A lot of companies still use them actually... Cisco for one. Millions still in use.

not on a consumer product though.



I have on on my 13 year old laptop.....but it has many USB ports too.



Serial is inexcusable on a modern (?) computer instrument.....in MY opinion.

If we're talking about latest, greatest, then USB is outdated. Thunderbolt is better.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

FYI: The 'S' in USB... is 'serial'. There's nothing to excuse really. I use a serial to Bluetooth adapter for one of my cars and plan it on another for ecu tuning. Doesn't matter to me if it's a universal or standard serial connection on the other end in my experience. Function is what counts when designing a global product. Only beef is when folks don't know what they're talking about and whine. Hence...

Careful!! You have NO idea concerning what I know about computers and technology.

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by dicklague

Careful!! You have NO idea concerning what I know about computers and technology.

Well Dick, it's my profession so I do actually have a very good idea of what you don't know by your statements.

Most consumers want a more elegant solution than the rs-232 interface but the fact of the matter is the simplicity of design lends itself well in many commercial applications still to this day. The difference is this is not a smart phone or tablet where you're connecting frequently to the interface. You would only add to the complexity and cost of the product to make it USB on-board for something you configure maybe once or twice ever. Just not worth it yet. Eventually the marketplace will support it maybe as costs of hardware continues to decline. Until then, it's perfectly acceptable and does lend even a tiny bit of security to keep girlfriends/nefarious individuals from plugging in to the interface control so quickly and easily where they might cause harm.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Well Dick, it's my profession so I do actually have a very good idea of what you don't know by your statements.

Most consumers want a more elegant solution than the rs-232 interface but the fact of the matter is the simplicity of design lends itself well in many commercial applications still to this day. The difference is this is not a smart phone or tablet where you're connecting frequently to the interface. You would only add to the complexity and cost of the product to make it USB on-board for something you configure maybe once or twice ever. Just not worth it yet. Eventually the marketplace will support it maybe as costs of hardware continues to decline. Until then, it's perfectly acceptable and does lend even a tiny bit of security to keep girlfriends/nefarious individuals from plugging in to the interface control so quickly and easily where they might cause harm.

You have not idea what MY profession is!

Back to the thread. Innovate uses a good old 1990's 7 pin serial connector.

My Daytona-Sensors AFR instrument has a nice mini-B USB connector on the front panel for me to download AFT, RPM, MAP data from it's memory. I would hate to have a big old 7 pin serial port there.

[djdsc]

Originally Posted by RWebb

The Innovate LC requires a serial port to connect to a PC. Does anyone still HAVE a PC with a serial port??

That is exactly why I kept my 13 year old Dell XP laptop. Stripped down to basically OS only it makes a great garage tuner.

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by dicklague

You have not idea what MY profession is!

Back to the thread. Innovate uses a good old 1990's 7 pin serial connector.

My Daytona-Sensors AFR instrument has a nice mini-B USB connector on the front panel for me to download AFT, RPM, MAP data from it's memory. I would hate to have a big old 7 pin serial port there.

Alright, last post here because it's painfully obvious you aren't educated to speak on this topic.

Here's my programming cable for the Innovate LMA-1 in front of a Pelican parts receipt. Do you notice anything out of the ordinary? Let me help you understand what you're looking at. This is a serial cable and yes, the interface for the console (laptop) side is rs-232 and square. Now, what about the connector on the other side that goes into the bottom of the innovate unit? Does this round end look like the "big old 7pin"?


Here's the LC1 serial cable... notice it's a 3.5mm jack on the innovate interface side.



In the end, I don't care if you're the CTO of AT&T for a profession...you don't know the Innovate product and you're quick to put the product down based upon your personal misunderstanding. If you don't know the product then don't simply regurgitate what you've read on the internet while declaring your credentials. It's poor form.

[timmy2]

My Innovate LC-1 uses the DB-9 serial connector on the back of my 10 year old Garage laptop that is running Win 7 Ultimate. (It was a rocket in the day, has had a few upgrades along the way!)
My Megasquirt controller uses the same serial port for programming as well.
I hate USB to serial adapters, most of them are junk.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by timmy2

My Innovate LC-1 uses the DB-9 serial connector on the back of my 10 year old Garage laptop that is running Win 7 Ultimate. (It was a rocket in the day, has had a few upgrades along the way!)
My Megasquirt controller uses the same serial port for programming as well.
I hate USB to serial adapters, most of them are junk.

Good insight Timmy.

How do I get into these debates where I label it my personal opinion and then I get raked over the coals for having an opinion? Will I ever learn?

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by dicklague

Good insight Timmy.

How do I get into these debates where I label it my personal opinion and then I get raked over the coals for having an opinion? Will I ever learn?

It's not your opinion that's being raked over coals, it's statements you make that are not supported by material fact. You are not a victim here, however you are perpetuating inaccurate statements and now saying it's your opinion that's under attack. This is not the case - your opinion is not under attack but what you're presenting to support it is and there-in lies the difference. There is no opinion about what interface comes off a specific wideband system. You are FLAT wrong and that's okay - this is a technical forum where we all share knowledge so you can gain a free education on this topic from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

You will learn NOW if you read. Yes, the time is now. You can focus eyes, ears and brain power to my posts and get the dumb out.

Originally Posted by dicklague

Back to the thread. Innovate uses a good old 1990's 7 pin serial connector.

My Daytona-Sensors AFR instrument has a nice mini-B USB connector on the front panel for me to download AFT, RPM, MAP data from it's memory. I would hate to have a big old 7 pin serial port there.

FACT: There is no big old 7 pin serial port on an Innovate unit. Even the pictures I've posted show pins you can count. 9 is the correct answer if you're looking at the standard issue communication cable.

The LMA-1 interface is a mini-din 8 pin interface. The cable they provide is a mini-din 8 pin to de-9 aka db-9 serial. The mini-din interface is about the size of a ball point pen. The mini-din is still in use worldwide for connecting components such as keyboards, computer mouse, printers etc to computers. When I said in an earlier posts that millions of serial interfaces were still in use I was wrong as well. There's probably more in the neighborhood of billions in use globally.

The LC-1 uses a simple 2 wire jack aka phone connector. The cable provided is the 2 wire jack aka phone connector to again a de-9 aka db-9 serial. Not 7 pins, again there are 9 pins. Smaller than a micro USB handoff on the gauge/unit. This interface is used for data/signal transmission even on the most advanced smart phones today.

Innovate is not the only reputable company to use serial communications in modern aftermarket automotive electronics. Zeitronix also uses a phone (RJ connector just like your landline phone system handoff... who uses POTS lines anymore anyway!) to serial cable connection:



VEMS uses RS-232 DE-9/DB-9for gauge display and ecu communications:


...and there's plenty more.

If you don't like the shape of the provided cable then you are free to change it as that's part of the beauty of serial communications. I prefer to put a bluetooth radio on mine personally.

All facts considered above, it's MY OPINION that the cable provided is not a way to measure if a product performs acceptably or not. After all, judging a book by it's cover means you very often miss a great read.

[timmy2]

To the OP,
Regarding an inexpensive unit....
This is about the best price out there I've seen.
There is a red display one for a little less.
Innovate LC1 Wideband DB 52mm Gauge Kit O2 Sensor LC 1 Green Display | eBay
Innovate LC1 Wideband O2 DB 52mm Kit Red Gauge Display LC 1 Tuner Combo | eBay

[RennSport911rsa]

I've personally been using the Haltech one and it has been excellent. They have a new version out that I have not tried yet

The version I use is neat because 1 controller can do 2 sensors. Then there is a separate display which can show 1 or both afr's simultaneously. Nice for a turbo car where you want to moniter both sides. My car being non turbo, I monitor just 1 side. I also like that it can be manually recalibrated

[prebordao]

Just finished my "AFR meter on the cheap" subproject. I went with a 14point7 SLC kit and the assembly was easy. I bought a Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor from ebay and stashed the controller inside an electric shaver box !
Let's see how it performs...

[turbobrat930]

What I do/ did not like about Innovate was a few things...

1. The cable to the X-16 guage could be a couple of feet longer. In a rear engine vehicle, it takes some careful routing to get the guage in the dash. I called Innovate to ask about an extension cable, and they advised they did not make one. When I suggested that Radio Shack would have one (for a pair of headphones), they laughed and said that would not work, as their cabling is wired differently. HUH??

2. I am having troubles now with the unit reading correctly... called innovate, they suggested that its and exhaust leak(with fresh air getting in) HUH?? These are Rarlyl8 headers.. no leaks there!!! And my engine was running pig rich (and the guage is reading VERY lean)

3. The serial port.... Well, it does work, but there are newer interfaces out that are widely used (USB, Blue Tooth, etc...) Why use an interface that does not come standard on laptops?? Yes, I know that you can get an adapter. But, I shouldn't need to get one!!

4. The employees at the company that I had contact with were RUDE... Sorry, I will not be buying another product from them....EVER!!!