LHD to RHD questions

[Simon88]

hello all,

I've found a 1977 911 which has had a wide body conversation and a 3.2 Carrara engine installed. the only thing about the vehicle that I'm not sure about is that it was converted from LHD to RHD and I'd like to under stand what risks I may face.

I will have a PPI done yet I want to know it is worth considering.

what are your personal expirance with converted cars?

regards

[zelrik911]

Hi & welcome to the Forum

I presume you are in a RHD country and considering buying an 'imported' 911.

Cars that come from USA are generally good for rust compared to a RHD English car which will always have rust issues, hidden or obvious. So a US LHD 911 has been seen as a good basis for conversion to RHD and many were done in the old days.

This happened so often in Australia that the Porsche Agent (Hamilton) eventually refused to sell new RHD conversion parts, as he thought it affected his 2nd hand sales of 'his' cars.

But good quality conversions continued to be done based on used parts mainly from UK / Ireland. To get registered in Australia converted 911's had to have Engineering Inspections before they got an Aus. Compliance Plate. So make sure you find this plate on the car - and it hasnt been tampered with or moved from another car.

As a very general observation, the longer the car has been in this country, the better the quality of the conversion - based on the value of the car being very high in the early years.

Because you didnt have to change the steering box in a 911 for a conversion, the main modifications were pedals & dashboard & the 'smugglers box' sheet metal. this affected the airconditioning as the inside bits were behind the pedals. Look carefully under the bonnet & the inside front floors/pedals to satisfy yourself for the quality of workmanship.

Another point is check out the VIN as your car, if a convertible, may have started life as a Targa and then been rebirthed as a convertible. So the quality of that conversion has too be inspected also

Always remember that with an English car, although RHD originally, there will be a huge possibility of hidden rust. check out this saga

Porsche approved 'rusty' Carrera 3.2

Porsche approved 'rusty' Carrera 3.2

Good luck & please report back on your findings. if you are unsure of anything submit photos and ask further questions.

[obrut]

Make sure you buy it very cheap as converted cars, at least in Australia, are valued well under factory rhd cars.

There were some shocking conversions done here in the 80's and the hangover of that continues to influence the market. Some of the more recent conversions are very well done and almost indistinguishable from factory, but even those cars still trade at a discount.

[Simon88]

Hi guys,

Apologizes, I haven't filled out my info yet I'm from Melbourne.

zelrik911 thank you for the information, a close mechanic friend told me the exact same thing in regards to checking the workmanship of the conversion. I have yet to visit the car, hopefully in the next day or so.

I believe the car came from America, I will double check it once I get the vin.

obrut, it is a great price for what the car is.

I will keep that in mind in regards to the Bad conversions of the 80's.

If you have any more tips please let me know, as I'd like to work out if the car is worth it before spending 300-500 on a PPI.

[clutch-monkey]

being an import and given the mish mash of body panels and engine conversion i'd say 40-50 (pushing it) tops mate, depending on condition of course

[pc100porsche]

There was an ex US 88 G50 Coupe RHD conversion available in New Zealand for approx NZ$22K very recently (original apart from the RHD conversion) .... it was converted by a well known shop apparently ..... the car took like 10 months to sell .... what is the ask on this one ?

[Simon88]

That's a bargain, its up for 25. He has someone checking it out today, its not perfect but it will do for a first 911, as long as it all checks out.

[TR]

Buy a RH drive car.

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by TR

Buy a RH drive car.

it is a RHD car.. now

[obrut]

Don't take this the wrong way - but it sounds like the classic "bitsa".

Unless it's super clean and sorted, 25 sounds like all the money to me.

[Simon88]

Hi Obrut,

I completely agree with you, its definitely not a collectors car haha

I'll check it out and go from there, I'm in no rush to buy.

I like the fact its a widebody, with a 3.2L

There is a factory M491 which is turbo look 3.2 UK import for 42k but thats pushing the budget at this stage for me.

[Neilnaz]

For what it is worth (possibly not a great deal) I bought a LHD to RHD conversion which had been poorly executed. The pedal box was from a Beetle and the dashboard layout was wrong (e.g. the heater controls remained to the right of the steering wheel). The thing is that the price I paid for the car reflected thisand it made the car affordable for me. Also, I would never consider purchasing a LHD car.

I have since replaced the pedal box with a 911 Porsche original and will, at some point, strip the dashboard down and relocate the switches and controls although everything works and looks fine just not 'ergonomic'. Maybe I will never bother with that - we will see....

The point is that, provided the price reflects the car's condition then it is a good choice for some people. The car may never be worth as much as an original RHD car but it never cost me as much as an original RHD car.

Cheers, Neil

[Porboynz]

Seems fairly simple, if you can not tell its been converted apart from the chassis number then go for it. If you find the dash is all wrong, the body/firewall/pedal assembly and welding rough and obviously converted then find another car.

[quozl]

Try posting the info of the car on Porsche Forum Australia, someone there might know the car or the previous owner if it has been in the country for awhile.

Regardless you should join as most of us are over there for chatting and here for reading and ordering parts. The Aussie section on Pelican can be a bit quiet.

Cheers Al

[zelrik911]

At the moment there is an advert in Oz Gumtree for a 911 RHD halfcut.
The photos are good & should give you an idea of what is cut out & swapped in for a RHD conversion.
IMO the bigger panels are the easier jobs in a conversion. The fiddly little bits like the pedals & dash controls determine the quality of the conversion.

RHD - Inside the Trunk compartment




RHD - Dash



Note the small pink block in the 1st pic. - thats where the VIN number was!!! Usually the tin around this is cut out & the VIN from the LHD car is grafted in. If its done right you wont pick the welds &/or join - a poor job is when its easy to spot.

[Neilnaz]

A poorly executed conversion does devalue the car compared to:

1) A RHD original
2) A well executed RHD conversion

and that, for me, is/was good news because my car became affordable as a 'nice' Longhood would be out of my price range. I don't think people should be put off provided they know what they are buying. I certainly was totally aware. The first of the issues has been dealt with (the incorrect pedal box). The dashboard looks good but isn't 'right' with controls in incorrect locations. I believe that will be easily sorted out if I wanted to go to the trouble.

The thing is mine is a conversion and whilst poorly executed it doesn't detract from the sheer joy of owning the car. To rectify the dash would be a fair amount of work. I would have to try and sort out the smugglers box which isn't particularly tidy if I was trying to make it into a well executed conversion. At the end of all that I would not enjoy the car any more but rather may have increased its resale value but probably not as much as the costs of improving.

To many the value of the car is intrinsic in it being what it was when it left the factory. My car isn't - someone put a 915 gearbox in it and spent quite a fair amount of money taking the engine from a 'T spec' to something peppier. The end result is a car that I really enjoy. That is all that matters to me.

Do not disparage a car if it makes ownership a realistic proposition. We are not all loaded with cash....

Regards,

Neil

[Simon88]

Hi guys,
Thanks for all your replies, the car was in quite bad shape.

Then engine swap was done to a 3.2 however the tacho didn't work and never has. IMO that to means someone hasn't done the right job, and makes me wonder about the rest of the workmanship.

Second thing I noticed, there was surface rust at the base of the pedals when I pulled up the carpet.

Also for some strange reason, the pressed metal where the rear deck lid locks into the car was ripply and not smooth. Unlike anything I've seen before.

I'm still keeping my eyes open, when the right one pops up I'll get it

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by Simon88

Hi guys,
Thanks for all your replies, the car was in quite bad shape.

Then engine swap was done to a 3.2 however the tacho didn't work and never has. IMO that to means someone hasn't done the right job, and makes me wonder about the rest of the workmanship.

Second thing I noticed, there was surface rust at the base of the pedals when I pulled up the carpet.

Also for some strange reason, the pressed metal where the rear deck lid locks into the car was ripply and not smooth. Unlike anything I've seen before.

I'm still keeping my eyes open, when the right one pops up I'll get it

Hi Simon
Yes keep searching, to answer your 3 observations (last 1st - as this is could be the most serious), possibly there has been a badly repaired smash at one of the rear corners which has rippled the panel??? And thats quite close to the rear engine mounts!

The pedal area seems to collect a lot of debris & muck, however the surface rust could be the result of unpreped welding in that area for the conversion. So good find.

The Tach would have originally run off the CDI unit. Perhaps they have replaced the CDI with a MSD unit (about half/third the price of a P. CDI) and didnt bother to do Tach conversion (another $100??) Or perhaps it has a home brew ignition where its hard to nut out a input for the Tach. Either way its an incomplete example and shows the lack of experience (&/or funds).

Is it just me - or are 911 prices tumbling down over the last month?

I got offered a 1 owner / local new 993 with a recent 20K paint job for 31K . Porsche in Victoria Pde had offered the owner 30K. the owner was desperate for cash to plough back into his business. The stressed guy only gave me an hour to decide but would take any reasonable advance on 30K, cash right now.
It was a that plastic roof Targa model, so worth less than coupe, but I couldnt get away with a quick purchase like that without alerting the wife, so had to let it go.

Checking CarSales & other sites, there seems to be a lot of price reductions too.
So keep looking as it may be a very good time to BUY a 911 in your price range.

[drabels]

Originally Posted by Simon88

Hi guys,
Thanks for all your replies, the car was in quite bad shape.

Then engine swap was done to a 3.2 however the tacho didn't work and never has. IMO that to means someone hasn't done the right job, and makes me wonder about the rest of the workmanship.

Second thing I noticed, there was surface rust at the base of the pedals when I pulled up the carpet.

Also for some strange reason, the pressed metal where the rear deck lid locks into the car was ripply and not smooth. Unlike anything I've seen before.

I'm still keeping my eyes open, when the right one pops up I'll get it

Ahh, what timing!

I think I just spoke to the very same seller a moment ago... Very fast talking.

The advert I saw neglected to mention the RHD conversion, but I discovered it via the registration number look-up at Vic Roads (which then gave me the VIN number.)

It's a 1977 Porsche 911 S from the US, but is advertised as a 1979 model.

He did confess it was a conversion. Afterwards, I started googling and then next thing you know I found this thread. I can accept the fender flares (god knows that can go wrong), but the RHD modification made me extremely nervous.

Thank goodness for the Internet eh!

Daniel

P.S. I am a long time lurker of Pelican parts and soon to be in the market for a late-70's/80's era 911. I can accept a few problems in an old car, but I am not looking for a disaster!

[zelrik911]

Hi Daniel
Welcome to the forum & good detective work!

I think you have picked a good time to look for 911's as prices are falling.

There are good conversions from LHD to RHD , so you shouldnt dismiss them absolutely as they can provide a reasonably priced introduction to 911 ownership.

The point I was trying to emphasise to Simon88 is that, around this price point, there are also a lot of RHD imports from UK & these cars are always rusty. In my opinion it is better to have an ex-US converted car than a rusty one.

Good luck in your search.