Shady shop practices. Shame on them.

[Driven97]

Short version:

I DIY most of the stuff on my car, but am considering an upgrade that's beyond my abilities.

I requested a guesstimate on a diff install into a bare 915. Shop quoted me $500 labor (very fair, imho) and $700 for parts. Parts being carrier bearings, ring gear bolts, locking tabs, and shims (if necessary.)

I responded with actual cost of listed parts (~$100, give or take) with links to said parts and asked if there was more to it that I missed, or a high estimate just in case there is unexpected damage found in the process. (Which was entirely possible.)

Shop suddenly too busy to work with me. Oops, don't think they liked me catching them trying to rip me off.

So learn your stuff, be an informed consumer, and if you find a good shop you trust, let them know by referring others to them.

If you care to read my long version, it's here.

[javadog]

Maybe he was going to use genuine Porsche parts, not generic parts. Just the two bearings and 12 bolts would run you north of $400, with tax. If you think all bearings and all bolts are the same, you have a rude awakening headed your way somehere down the road. Even bearings from companies that used to have a good name are made in places now that you don't want them to be made. Spend a half hour bending the ear of your local bearing supplier and see what you can learn. I won't buy a bearing without seeing it in person, to see what plant it came from. And, there are more ****ty bolts out there than good ones. A differential is not the place I'd choose to use a bolt from the hardware store.

Maybe the estimate was just off of the top of his head. Maybe he's a little light on labor (I note that that didn't concern you) and a little heavy on parts. Hard to say. Maybe he's not ducking the work because you"caught him" but because he thinks you might turn out to be a pain in his ass.

I don't know, since I wasn't there. And I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guy, since I don't know you. I'm just saying that there may be another side to the story and maybe you shouldn't judge him the way you did.

[911SauCy]

Bob was going to give you the 'ole...

He's a dumb, deep-pocketed, sits behind a desk all day, Porsche owner discount

[Lapkritis]

...just wait until you price out engine rebuilds. That's a real riot. DIY for under $5g or pay a shop $12g+. Lolz@Porsche Tax.

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by javadog

I don't know, since I wasn't there. And I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guy, since I don't know you. I'm just saying that there may be another side to the story and maybe you shouldn't judge him the way you did.

Yes, I'm totally aware that I could be off base. On top of that, I've never worked in a shop and realize quoting something over e-mail accurately is about impossible. I just really didn't like the feeling I got out of the exchange.

I just caution people to do some research and ask questions. If Bob sent me back that he insists on Porsche branded bearings only, for example, and that they cost more I'd accept that. Or if he said he typically finds issues and the estimate was high to cover these possible issues I'd accept that too. I would never have written the story.

[dfhtrhjn]

I've seen some overcharging on parts from certain places, sometimes it's intentional, sometimes they're just paying a convenience fee for being able to source them quickly.

Generally a good place will be forthcoming with the brand and how much they can get the parts for when giving you a quote. Since there are often multiple parts options when performing repairs, transparency in that area is essential.

[yelcab1]

A reputable shop would insist on using factory parts that will likely come with a warranty, known to fit, and of high quality. This is more expensive than off market parts, but the shop won't have to "redo" the job because of a bad bolt. This results in expensive part prices, but protects their reputation. They certainly do not have the time to scout on line for 2 hours looking for the best deal.

Your "calling them out" on part prices just confirms that you are the type of customer that wants everything for cheap, that their labor is zero, and if possible, you would just bring your own parts.

Funny how many people insist the shops to accept owner-supplied parts, and yet we would never bring our own grocery to a restaurant.

[The cap'n]

Shops pay the overhead with parts markup. That's how it's done pretty much throughout the trade. They have rent/mortgage, utilities, advertising, licenses and permits, tools and equipment. Labor should cover the employees and the shop profit. If they were to price parts at what you can find them for on the web, they'd go under in short order. The places you find them super cheap have no, or very little, physical presence other than a desk and a phone line, and some kind of computer access to the web. When I was in business, I would only rarely use customer supplied parts, and then there's no warranty on either parts or labor. I would jack up the labor to cover the lost parts profit. I had a sign clearly pointing this out. I turned away a lot of work because the customer was too cheap to allow me to make enough on the job to make it worth my while to take it on. IMO, it's better to sit around and starve than to bust my tail and still starve.

The Cap'n

[BE911SC]

Box it up and send it to a reputable shop such as John Walker's or closer to where you live. Spend your money where it is appreciated. Or DIY the transmission job too? Gotta' be many threads on that.

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by The cap'n

Shops pay the overhead with parts markup.

Fair enough. I know people have to survive. But is 500% markup industry standard?

Regardless, I'm very thankful I'm competent enough to do most of my own work.

Originally Posted by BE911SC

Box it up and send it to a reputable shop such as John Walker's or closer to where you live. Spend your money where it is appreciated. Or DIY the transmission job too? Gotta' be many threads on that.

I got a very reasonable estimate from an out of state shop, and a fair estimate from the local shop that I've used before, trust, and honestly planned on going with the whole time.

FWIW, the shop I plan on using came highly recommended by this forum. So Pelican people tend to know what's up. Thank you.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by The cap'n

Shops pay the overhead with parts markup. That's how it's done pretty much throughout the trade. They have rent/mortgage, utilities, advertising, licenses and permits, tools and equipment. Labor should cover the employees and the shop profit. If they were to price parts at what you can find them for on the web, they'd go under in short order. The places you find them super cheap have no, or very little, physical presence other than a desk and a phone line, and some kind of computer access to the web. When I was in business, I would only rarely use customer supplied parts, and then there's no warranty on either parts or labor. I would jack up the labor to cover the lost parts profit. I had a sign clearly pointing this out. I turned away a lot of work because the customer was too cheap to allow me to make enough on the job to make it worth my while to take it on. IMO, it's better to sit around and starve than to bust my tail and still starve.

The Cap'n

i totally agree with this . perhaps OP would have prefered his bill to break out as:

parts=
labour=
lights=
heat=
taxes=
rent=
insurance=
benefits=

[afterburn 549]

I replaced the carrier bearings in mine for less then 200.00 My labor is free to me.
That said to put in a Lsd is more labor (set up )
I would allocate at least 8 hours to it for it....but i am s l o w.

[djdsc]

Blame it on the internet where everyone knows everything. I'm not bashing just saying.

I've been a general contractor for 30 years having done every project imaginable. I've noticed in the last 3-5 years everyone I work for seems to know my job better than I do; how to do it and what to do it with.

My determination is all the home improvement TV shows and the great and accurate free info available on line. Everyone is an expert even here.

[The cap'n]

Many automotive business consultants recommend doubling net parts cost, at a MINIMUM, preferring triple when you can. Obviously, dealer parts purchased at 20% below list aren't really going to fit that formula, so other parts have to cover the margin.

The Cap'n

[hdrockerroller]

I know a great shop in San Antonio TX. Jones autowerks. 210-657-1111. 11010 Iota Drive.
Bob Jones has been working on porches for at least 40 years or so.
I also DIY most of my own stuff including engine rebuild, but they rebuilt my 915 transmission including taking it out and putting it back in for about $2600.00. Works like a new box now.


Paul

[hdrockerroller]

ps... don't ever buy a Vertex automotive rebuilt transmission. Got one from there and it was crap.

[afterburn 549]

Porsche parts might be different. ( i know i would not stock a bunch of stuff ! )
I used to own a couple generic auto shops.
The double AA mover stuff was about 30% mark up that we stocked. Over night and next day was more Sometimes a LOT more .
That means the car took up space somewhere, sometimes it could not be moved off the rack or pit.
Or it was "stored" a few days.
This alone takes a while to reset.
Every shop is allowed it's own SOP.
Overhead is a lot in a real professional shop.
Shade tree not so much.
There are honest shops that make a honest living.
The few that are ignorant, like anything ruins the whole flavor for everyone.
New car stealers are the worse.
People are treated like a bad whore after the guarantee runs out.
Then they scratch their heads why customers never return.

[TimT]

I know of a shop where the labor rate is $25/hour more than the regular rate for installing owner supplied parts...

[HawgRyder]

Try buying some Harley parts...they take the suggested retail price of the part and double it...even for over the counter parts you are going to install yourself.
Bob

[dicklague]

another reason not to own a Harley!!!