Advice GREATLY appreciated: Looking for my first 911: '80s SC vs Carrera / 915 vs G50

[tumamilhem]

I found a very nice 1988 G50 Carrera. Car looks to be near mint. 79,000 miles on it. No engine or tranny rebuild has been done. 5 owners. Lots of service records (maintenance). Great interior. OG paint in very good condition (no repaint needed), front bumper re-painted. Guards Red over black (would prefer something not so common, but still, good condition is key). Not completely stock. Upgrades include: Turbo Tie Rod Kit, 23mm Front Torsion Bar, 29mm Rear Torsion Bar, Drop Links, Slotted Front Rotors, Bursch Exhaust, Adjustable Koni Shocks Front and Rear, Wevo Motor Mounts, and Autothority Chip. (Stock Chip goes with car).

Asking price is $45K. Seems high. And out of my price range. They will only come down $1K. (It is sold at a classic car dealer though, which will be higher. May be a commissioned car).

Is this too high a price for it? I was thinking more around $35K for this car. I asked if he would go to $40K and he said no. Pics attached.

[tumamilhem]

[tumamilhem]

[Jesse16]

I'd say I have that exact car, 87. Got mine for 15k 5 years ago, think that's a lifetime price wise from what I hear. Guy wanted 23k but no-one was buying. The nice interior and dash on the one you show are valuable. The "upgrades" are not so much. Mine had 169K when I got it and I've done the engine (top end was the culprit for smoking and oil usage) so its fresh to 300k I'd say.
I'd like to paint mine and ditch the red myself, not doing that to win any competitions.
I'd say its a great car to drive the heck out of, it'll have all the needs you'd expect with a nearly 30 year old car unless you never drive it. For pretty, think about it. If you're gonna drive or track it occasionally, think you can pay less. If you love it and are tired of looking, get it.

[wrxnofx]

I wouldn't pay that much for that car, but that's just me.

I looked at a car from them 1 1/2 years ago. My how prices have gone up (in their opinion). The car I looked at was really similar to the one you show. I asked for some information on the car and they provided me very little. After indicating the car was "clean, no accidents", the Carfax revealed otherwise. I asked them a few more questions, they didn't bother responding. What do they care though, as the car sold anyway a few days later.

[Bleedsblue]

Wow, the market really is strong these days. I'm not sure I'd pay $45k for that, but I got super-lucky buying my '86 just before the recent surge. For the relatively low miles on that car above, someone might pay $45k without thinking about it.

Keep in mind, for reasons with which I disagree, the G50s command the highest premium of the SC and Carrera market. I don't mind the 915 one bit, and mine even needs a linkage refresh and has 136k on it. I have driven a G50 car w/ 50,000 miles in amazing shape, and while the shifting was more modern, it wasn't worth the extra $ to me.

Early Carreras and SCs are probably more in your price range, though I don't think cars under 100k and decent maintenance sell for less than $25k anymore.

FWIW, I have a receipt from the previous owner of my car for a $2400 Griffiths A/C system, which he installed himself (otherwise, more $)--even with the center dash vents, the A/C is good-to-mild at best in, say, Texas summer heat.

[Josh D]

Buy one you can drive.

Spending a lot for a too nice of car and you'll always be worried about it, and therefore won't drive it much.

Buy a well maintained SC or Carrera with some miles and cosmetic warts and drive the snot out of it. It's what these cars were built for.

If your buying as an investment, never mind what I just said......

[wrxnofx]

^^^^THIS^^^^^

My take is, buy what you can find, regardless of whether it's 3.0, 3.2, 915, G50. Drive it. Drive it some more. If you honestly don't like it, then sell it for what you paid for it, and get what you really want.

I found that once you have one, people are more apt to let you drive theirs. So then you can compare easier.

[tumamilhem]

I have looked at cars here before. They do seem overpriced. They do have a 1988 Carrera Targa, but it has aftermarket wheels and fiberglass wide body kit with aftermarket wing. 135K miles, $32K. Needs a few minor repairs, nothing bad. I have a targa (914) and I LOVE it. The top is never on. But I think I like the coupe for the 911 better. I know it's just aesthetics and what really matters is how it makes you feel DRIVING it (which open air is awesome). And I love the look of the targa, but I like the coupe a tad more. And I have a targa so when I want to go open air, I can go in the 914. And I don't like the fiberglass aftermarket kit. Give me OG.

I think this place WAY overprices their cars. This car should be $30K, not $45K. The good part is, since I am not mechanically inclined, I would have nothing to do on it, just drive and enjoy (oh, and I do not plan to track it. I've never been on a track and would only buy this for enjoying driving and an investment, like my 914 LE Can Am). The bonus is, it's in good (okay, great) condition and mechanically sound. As I'm not a mechanic, I understand it's better to spend a bit more up front for a good example than something a lot less that I have to put more money into. But still, overpriced. I just wonder considering, is it still worth it to get it? And just REALLY tighten my belt for a bit?

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by Josh D

Buy one you can drive.

Spending a lot for a too nice of car and you'll always be worried about it, and therefore won't drive it much.

Buy a well maintained SC or Carrera with some miles and cosmetic warts and drive the snot out of it. It's what these cars were built for.

If your buying as an investment, never mind what I just said......

Well both. I can't do a lot of work myself, so it's better to spend a little more for a better condition car. And yes, it will be an investment (although I'll probably want to keep it forever). But no, it won't be a garage queen. I have the rarest 914 production car made and I drive it weekly a few times. These cars are meant to enjoy and need to be driven to stay in good working order, but mostly to enjoy driving it. But just take care of them. My 914 is almost a daily driver, but I take good care of it too.

[MARISOL78sc]

I bought this 1978 SC back in March. Owned two 993's. I absolutely love this car! I enjoy driving it more than my 993's. I'm a big fan of the 915. I will be going with SSI's and M&K 2 in 1 out over the winter.

[sm70911]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

Way way overpriced at $45k. Jeff the owner at GR Auto Gallery whines on the Marketplace here, but the reality is they skimp on details. Go and look at the car and see whats missing. There was thread where a guy was buying a Diamond blue coupe and it had dirty water coming out of the sunroof drain holes and was missing the rear decklid lower seal. For 45k I would want complete history to back up the mileage, a recent service, to see the car drive and ake sure there is no smoke on decel. (Valve guides) and a better muffler than is on the car.
Can you smog the car in your state with no CAT ?
Remember there is always another Porsche, and expect some 'posters' with a low post count to chime in on this thread and start saying how they have bought cars from GR, Jeffs amazing, all their cars are bargains ... yadda yadda ..then they wont post again until GR comes up.

My 2c look for a sorted SC, that has a complete history, even better a ROW car if you can find one. Use the money you save to add SSI, performance muffler, and updated AC from either Griffiths or Keuhl. You will still be at less than $40k+
When you are shopping for a car history is more valuable than low miles !

[tumamilhem]

Thanks for your input sm70911. I asked him about the history. He has loads of service documentation from new, apparently all maintenance (nothing needed repairing) and was well taken care of.

In FL, we no longer have smog or emissions tests.

I specifically asked him about the AC. The AC has been recharged over the life of the car (low miles, so not too many so far. I'm sure will need another one) but never needed to be serviced. If it works (and just needs a recharge), it will be better than having to spend a few thou for an aftermarket one. This one pretty much needs nothing.

I gather this isn't a stock muffler/exchangers. Can anybody tell me if these are just as good or may need to be replaced? I'm very much interested in everybody's opinions. This will be my first 911 and though I've had 3 914s and have kept them all OG, I have read a lot about and admired 911s for years but I don't know a lot of the technical ins and outs of them, especially mods since I kept all my cars original. So "upgrades" I am unfamiliar with.

Anybody think this car is worth it as it needs nothing and pretty much ready to just drive (rememeber, I'm no mechanic so I won't save by buying low and working on it myself). Thanks again for yoru knowledge and input.

[javadog]

I wouldn't buy that car at any price. It has too many flaws. At the price he's asking... it's a joke.

Look elsewhere. I look nationwide when I buy a car. Local limits you too much.

JR

[tumamilhem]

javadog, what flaws? (Educate me, please. I see none).

I am looking nationwide. I am located in Jacksonville, FL. This car is in Michigan.

[PorscheAmateur]

Both are great cars. Drive em both, and see which you like more. And remember, buy the best you can afford now.

[sm70911]

Bargain 83 SC Coupe

OK here's an example. A euro SC for much less than half the GR car. Yes it has a little problem, but, if you get it fixed (and I think its an easy fix), you have a last year SC and its a Euro car to boot. You have lots of money left over for the AC / SSI / Performance muffler. Even if you don't DIY but you have found and independent shop you trust, once the air leak is sorted you have begun to know your way around the car. Heck even if it needed a re build you would still be ahead ...

Here are three more examples all better priced, that leave you room for upgrades and maintenance.
1982 Porsche 911 SC Coupe
1986 911 Carrera coupe, 103k. miles, 31,500.
FS 1982 Porsche 911SC
'78 SC Hot Rod/Outlaw
If I wasn't so jammed up at work right now I would have already bought this car. Clearly enthusiast owned and ready for you to Install your new AC, you dont have the dirty work of removing the old system. Like Javadog said I wouldn't go near that car at GR, and I'll bet you a case of beer there is deferred maintenance on that car, in-spite of all the Armor All ...

[javadog]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

javadog, what flaws?

Well, you have an example of the fattest, heaviest 911 of its era, which doesn't float my particular boat. At least it's not a targa.

Let's start with the "upgrades". His change of the torsion bars essentially doubled the stock spring rates. Not what I would want on a street-driven car. In addition, he went stiffer on the front than the rear, which is a good way to add more understeer. Stock, it would push the front. Now, it is probably worse.

He's got drop links, which implies he has aftermarket sway bars to make it stiffer yet. Maybe he has cured his too stiff front with a really stiff rear sway bar. I'm not a betting man but you might be.

Then, he's added Koni shocks. Of the three brands that you might typically find on a 911, those would be my least favorites. Altogether, this thing won't ride well on real-world roads.

I prefer the stock brake rotors to the aftermarket slotted crap. The Bursch muffler is also crap, in my opinion and he has also taken the catalytic converter off, which will make it difficult to pass an emissions inspection.

The Wevo motor mounts are another pointless upgrade for a street car. Depending on which ones he's used, they could be either annoying, or something that will add enough vibration to shorten the life of a few things.

The Autothority chip was popular in its day but there are better chips out there. If you're going to "upgrade" something, why not use the better one? Then there's the question of what octane the chip was designed to use and what he actually used. It's possible to get some light detonation in a 911 engine before it is actually audible. Did the previous owner know what he was doing or was he an idiot. Could have been either.

Did he use the car in track events? With a suspension set up that way, that's a good bet.

Have a look at the worn rear rotors. It could use a set of tires, too.

The car appears to be somewhat plain, option-wise. For that kind of money, I'd expect a better color combination, or sport seats, or at least a full leather interior.

If I were going to upgrade a car, I might give a little more enthusiasm to an upgrade that as actually needed. Take the H5 headlights used on that car. Easily the worst headlights ever installed on a 911. No upgrade there... Could have been done for less money than an oil change.

The car looks clean but it's just a recent so-so detail. Look closely and you'll see that it wasn't always this clean. There's a fair bit of corrosion underneath, from his use in rain, or on salty roads. I've learned enough through the years that I won't generally look at a car that lived up north or on the east coast.

For that kind of money, I'd want a detailed listing of what the service records show. I'd want to see the spare, the jack, the tools, the books, etc. I'd want to know how many owners, where it was used, etc. If you're going to ask a ton of money for a car, at least justify it.

You get the idea...

JR

[HorstP]

JR did a very very good analysis, I wouldn't believe the mileage anyway...

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by javadog

Well, you have an example of the fattest, heaviest 911 of its era, which doesn't float my particular boat. At least it's not a targa.

Let's start with the "upgrades". His change of the torsion bars essentially doubled the stock spring rates. Not what I would want on a street-driven car. In addition, he went stiffer on the front than the rear, which is a good way to add more understeer. Stock, it would push the front. Now, it is probably worse.

He's got drop links, which implies he has aftermarket sway bars to make it stiffer yet. Maybe he has cured his too stiff front with a really stiff rear sway bar. I'm not a betting man but you might be.

Then, he's added Koni shocks. Of the three brands that you might typically find on a 911, those would be my least favorites. Altogether, this thing won't ride well on real-world roads.

I prefer the stock brake rotors to the aftermarket slotted crap. The Bursch muffler is also crap, in my opinion and he has also taken the catalytic converter off, which will make it difficult to pass an emissions inspection.

The Wevo motor mounts are another pointless upgrade for a street car. Depending on which ones he's used, they could be either annoying, or something that will add enough vibration to shorten the life of a few things.

The Autothority chip was popular in its day but there are better chips out there. If you're going to "upgrade" something, why not use the better one? Then there's the question of what octane the chip was designed to use and what he actually used. It's possible to get some light detonation in a 911 engine before it is actually audible. Did the previous owner know what he was doing or was he an idiot. Could have been either.

Did he use the car in track events? With a suspension set up that way, that's a good bet.

Have a look at the worn rear rotors. It could use a set of tires, too.

The car appears to be somewhat plain, option-wise. For that kind of money, I'd expect a better color combination, or sport seats, or at least a full leather interior.

If I were going to upgrade a car, I might give a little more enthusiasm to an upgrade that as actually needed. Take the H5 headlights used on that car. Easily the worst headlights ever installed on a 911. No upgrade there... Could have been done for less money than an oil change.

The car looks clean but it's just a recent so-so detail. Look closely and you'll see that it wasn't always this clean. There's a fair bit of corrosion underneath, from his use in rain, or on salty roads. I've learned enough through the years that I won't generally look at a car that lived up north or on the east coast.

For that kind of money, I'd want a detailed listing of what the service records show. I'd want to see the spare, the jack, the tools, the books, etc. I'd want to know how many owners, where it was used, etc. If you're going to ask a ton of money for a car, at least justify it.

You get the idea...

JR

THANK YOU for that education! Yes, I noticed some of the same things you pointed out re the corrosion (although my 914 lived in Oregon for 39 years and didn't have any), the sway bars looked larger than stock, etc. He was kind of snippy with me on the phone as well when I asked if there had been an engine or tranny rebuild (I always ask). He thought that was a ridiculous question with the miles on it. I pointed out even with low miles, due to age (and sitting around not being driven much, which is the worst thing you can do to an old Porsche), it may need to be resealed, etc. He told me he deals with Porsche mechanics every day and nobody has ever said that.

Okay.

Thank you so much for the time and effort in educating me. I have another car I am looking at and interested in. The price isn't posted. When I find out, if it is reasonable, I'll request more pics of it and maybe post them here.