Advice GREATLY appreciated: Looking for my first 911: '80s SC vs Carrera / 915 vs G50

[tumamilhem]

seems the more research I do, the more difficult it is to decide.
eems the more research I do, the more difficult it is to decide.
ello, Pelicans! I am in need of input that I know has been beaten to death, but I'm having a difficult time determining which car to shop for - an SC or Carrera, 3.0 vs 3.2, 915 vs G50. I realize the increased powerplant doesn't necessarily mean more power consider larger vs smaller intake, highervs lower compression, more powerful engine but more weight.

This will be my first 911 but I do know some about them. I love the longhoods, but way out of my pricerange now. I grew up with the G Model cars as a kid and love those too. I read "The Used 911 Story" to better educate myself. I know the studs on an SC break and the valves on a Carrera wear prematurely. I know a lot that's on paper. But it doesn't compare to owner experience and testimony.

I am not mechanically inclined, so I need to buy the best example I can afford. A car may have low miles, but it may be in need of a top end overhaul soon if that's the case (I saw an immaculate 86 that had an engine rebuild at $65K. In contrast, my VW GLI has 140K miles on it and all I've done is change the oil).

By the way, I'm not new to Porsche. I've owned 3 914s and currently own the rarest production 914, a restored LE Can Am "Creamsicle". If not familuar, it's the 2.0 Type 4 engine that Porsche then modified with the 901 side shifter tranny.

So I know the 915 shifter can be fussy. The 901 can be a challenge too, but how improved is the 915? I know the G50 is very smooth, but much heavier thus equalling out the difference in the more powerful 3.2.

Is the 3.0 a more spirited engine than the 3.2 (considering the different trannys)? I know parts for the 3.0 car can be more expensive as many are discontinued/less available than 3.2 parts.

SCs had less power, but were lighter. Carreras had more power and later better shifting, but more weight. Some say the differences between the SC and Carrera are so minimal, they don't really matter. Then some swear by one over the other, prefering the driving experience of one over the other.

One obvious difference at least, is the Carrera (from 1986) had better AC and vents than the SC. I live in NE FL sothat makes a difference. AC in my 914 is taking the top off and going 90 mph.

I know both these cars are excellent. I suppose I want the best performance with the best mechanical reliability. It seems both of these cars have their respective contradictions. The "bulletproof" SC is notorious for snapping heads, Carreras for worn valves and cylinders. The 915 tranny is lighter but fussy. The G50 is smoother but much heavier. The SC is less powerful but lighter and the Carrera is more powerful but heavier.

It seems the more research I do, the more unsure of what to get I become. Is the "best of the breed" (87-89) mentality just brainwashing? Your experience, advice and input are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[wildthing]

Lots of opinions on this board already. Just do a quick search. I also found "The Used 911 Story" by Peter Zimmerman very useful.

Whatever you end up with, if you want A/C you're going to spend some time and cash. Lots of A/C threads here as well.

As for me I opted for the G50 because I prefer the more modern feel and the relatively easier A/C upgrade. Your preference may be different. That's what's important.

Although, there was a thread recently about the 915 being improved to a point where it is just as good if not better than the G50.

[Jack Stands]

After having cars with CIS and Motronic injection, I'd prefer the more modern Motronic, so that would take you to the Carrera from '84 on. The later cars with the larger dash vents and G50 transmissions are nice, but I'd look more at the individual car and maintenance than the year as they all are nice. Driving several will help you decide, and I'd recommend an independent pre-purchase inspection on any car you're seriously considering.

Enjoy the hunt!

[Dave Colangelo]

You can find almost all the info you seek here. But since you seem to have some Porsche experience you know what you are getting into. For me it breaks down to this.

Engine:
3.0 VS 3.2
Power aside here the big difference is intake system. The 3.0's had CIS which has received its fair share of complaints over the years but my SC runs really nicely with it and any well kept CIS system is just fine. The 3.2 is digitally injected and many people like that as its more like what cars are now. The 3.2 can be easy tuned and get a bit of a power bump by just changing a chip in the ECU. The CIS takes a bit more to tune. With that in mind the 3.2 has a few more electronics in it but the CIS has a CD box that is prone to failure.

Transmission
915 VS G50
Keep in mind early 3.2's had 915's so you can chose your engine to be a 3.2 and still get a 915.
The big differences here seem to be smother shifting the hydraulic clutch. Anyone here will tell you that the cable clutch on the 915 takes muscle to operate. If you are on the older side, get stuck in traffic a lot, or have a weak left leg for what ever reason you may want a G50. I dont much mind the shifting on my 915 but I have not spent enough time with the G50 to really know it. They say the trans in the 944 is similar to a G50. If thats the case the shifting is nice. I however enjoy the deliberate mechanical nature of the 915

To answer some of the questions you asked.

So I know the 915 shifter can be fussy. The 901 can be a challenge too, but how improved is the 915? I know the G50 is very smooth, but much heavier thus equalling out the difference in the more powerful 3.2.

See above, both transmissions are just fine.

Is the 3.0 a more spirited engine than the 3.2 (considering the different trannys)? I know parts for the 3.0 car can be more expensive as many are discontinued/less available than 3.2 parts.

Both cars have expensive parts that are unique to them and both cars have hard to find and easy to find parts. With Porsche's latest push with "Porsche Classic" it seems like they will be able to get you what you need (for a price) for the rest of time. I really like that they have made a commitment to this. Otherwise you can just wait for Hershey every year...

SCs had less power, but were lighter. Carreras had more power and later better shifting, but more weight. Some say the differences between the SC and Carrera are so minimal, they don't really matter. Then some swear by one over the other, prefering the driving experience of one over the other.

Most of my time is in an SC but a stock SC to me has always been just shy of a stock 3.2. If this is your first 911 its not going to matter you will have fun in either car and loads of it.


One obvious difference at least, is the Carrera (from 1986) had better AC and vents than the SC. I live in NE FL sothat makes a difference. AC in my 914 is taking the top off and going 90 mph.

You can forget about the AC in any Porsche from this era. You could buy a factory fresh car that has been in a box since 89 and you are still going to need to put an aftermarket system in it.

Regards
Dave

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Dave Colangelo

You can find almost all the info you seek here. But since you seem to have some Porsche experience you know what you are getting into. For me it breaks down to this.

Engine:
3.0 VS 3.2
Power aside here the big difference is intake system. The 3.0's had CIS which has received its fair share of complaints over the years but my SC runs really nicely with it and any well kept CIS system is just fine. The 3.2 is digitally injected and many people like that as its more like what cars are now. The 3.2 can be easy tuned and get a bit of a power bump by just changing a chip in the ECU. The CIS takes a bit more to tune. With that in mind the 3.2 has a few more electronics in it but the CIS has a CD box that is prone to failure.

Transmission
915 VS G50
Keep in mind early 3.2's had 915's so you can chose your engine to be a 3.2 and still get a 915.
The big differences here seem to be smother shifting the hydraulic clutch. Anyone here will tell you that the cable clutch on the 915 takes muscle to operate. If you are on the older side, get stuck in traffic a lot, or have a weak left leg for what ever reason you may want a G50. I dont much mind the shifting on my 915 but I have not spent enough time with the G50 to really know it. They say the trans in the 944 is similar to a G50. If thats the case the shifting is nice. I however enjoy the deliberate mechanical nature of the 915

To answer some of the questions you asked.

So I know the 915 shifter can be fussy. The 901 can be a challenge too, but how improved is the 915? I know the G50 is very smooth, but much heavier thus equalling out the difference in the more powerful 3.2.

See above, both transmissions are just fine.

Is the 3.0 a more spirited engine than the 3.2 (considering the different trannys)? I know parts for the 3.0 car can be more expensive as many are discontinued/less available than 3.2 parts.

Both cars have expensive parts that are unique to them and both cars have hard to find and easy to find parts. With Porsche's latest push with "Porsche Classic" it seems like they will be able to get you what you need (for a price) for the rest of time. I really like that they have made a commitment to this. Otherwise you can just wait for Hershey every year...

SCs had less power, but were lighter. Carreras had more power and later better shifting, but more weight. Some say the differences between the SC and Carrera are so minimal, they don't really matter. Then some swear by one over the other, prefering the driving experience of one over the other.

Most of my time is in an SC but a stock SC to me has always been just shy of a stock 3.2. If this is your first 911 its not going to matter you will have fun in either car and loads of it.


One obvious difference at least, is the Carrera (from 1986) had better AC and vents than the SC. I live in NE FL sothat makes a difference. AC in my 914 is taking the top off and going 90 mph.

You can forget about the AC in any Porsche from this era. You could buy a factory fresh car that has been in a box since 89 and you are still going to need to put an aftermarket system in it.

Regards
Dave

I would agree with almost all of this. The factory stock AC on the Carrera is for sure weak, but if it is tweaked to pure factory stock like new it will be OK in weather up to 90 and any evening or overcast day. It fails in 90+ full sun conditions. The fix is a couple of grand of parts and installation. Personally I think the AC upgrade is the best upgrade I have done to my car in the 19 years I have owned it. That includes rebuilding the transmission and the engine.

[Hnichols]

They're both great cars; in my opinion, differences among individual cars will override some of the bigger contrasts (3.0 vs. 3.2, 915 vs. G-50). For example, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 915 car that's been well-cared for, even if, in general the G50 is more robust. So keep all your options open, while still being aware of the features of each year.
Good luck, and have fun!

[boss11]

buy the best car you can find, don't get caught up in SC vs Carrera debates, both are fantastic!

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by Jack Stands

After having cars with CIS and Motronic injection, I'd prefer the more modern Motronic, so that would take you to the Carrera from '84 on. The later cars with the larger dash vents and G50 transmissions are nice, but I'd look more at the individual car and maintenance than the year as they all are nice. Driving several will help you decide, and I'd recommend an independent pre-purchase inspection on any car you're seriously considering.

Enjoy the hunt!

Here's where the ideal situation doesn't exist (barely). Ideally, I should drive a:
3.0 SC w/915
3.2 C w/915
3.2 C w/G50

However, pretty much anything I buy will have to be trucked to me. There's not too much close by. Which also makes a PPI more difficult as I wouldn't know a reputable shop to go to. I don't like buying blindly, but there's not much available in the area.

Of the three options above, what would a mechanically sound nice condition car be worth? I saw a nice 86 Targa w/80K miles on it (already had a top end done...is that too soon to need?) For $36K. Seems about $8K too much.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by boss11

buy the best car you can find, don't get caught up in SC vs Carrera debates, both are fantastic!

^This

Just too much variance from car to car of either type. You won't find many, maybe a few, 3.2 Carrera owners that wish they would have gotten an SC, or SC owners that wish they would have gotten a 3.2 Carrera. It mostly boils down to condition.

I absolutely love my Euro spec SC. I personally wouldn't trade it for a US spec 3.2 Carrera in similar condition.

[tumamilhem]

Okay so if I were to try to narrow the options down, and I'm probably being undecisively redundant, if I got an SC, which would be the better one? An 81-83?

If I got the 3.2 Carrera, go with the 915 or G50? Maybe more power with the 3.2 and less weight with the 915?

Is the 3.0 Carrera the same as the 3.0 SC?

Are you guys sick of me yet? Lol oi...

[Hnichols]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

Okay so if I were to try to narrow the options down, and I'm probably being undecisively redundant, if I got an SC, which would be the better one? An 81-83?

If I got the 3.2 Carrera, go with the 915 or G50? Maybe more power with the 3.2 and less weight with the 915?

Is the 3.0 Carrera the same as the 3.0 SC?

Are you guys sick of me yet? Lol oi...

I guess what we're trying to say is, don't narrow your options down at the outset. The questions above are a bit too abstract: as I understand it, Porsche made minor improvements on the original SC, so abstractly an 81-83 is "better" than a '79 (even though I love the chrome of the early ones). But a particular '79 could be a much better car than a particular '83, and vice versa.

So post some links from Craigslist or whatever of two cars for sale. Your questions above will give way to more meaningful ones like, which car is better, this one with such-and-such leakdown numbers, etc, or that one with this many miles, etc.

[monkeyodeath]

I chose a 3.2 because I've worked on a lot of Motronic cars in the past and wanted a system that was familiar to me, since I work on my own vehicles.

I also wanted the bigger dash vents because I'm a baby about the heat.

I got a 915 because the cars were less money and I like a funky old car with a funky old transmission.

Compared to two different generations of any other car, the differences between the 3.2 and the SC are exceedingly small, from almost every standpoint. Maintenance and reliability issues will depend much more on the individual car.

I agree with the others - if you don't have specific desires, don't narrow yourself down unnecessarily. Keep an eye out for the best car you can find for the money you're looking to spend.

Take the AC thing into account, too - expect to put a couple grand or more into any of these cars to get really effective air conditioning. Getting a less-pricey 915 car might be worth it for you if you can put the money you saved into getting a great AC system together.

And above all, don't sweat it too much. These cars aren't depreciating - if you're not sure, just focus on getting one that's in good shape. I had a 3.2 cabrio for a while and eventually decided a coupe suited me better instead. Because I got a decent car and took care of it, I was able to sell it and get another one without taking a big financial hit.

[Jesse16]

Like others are saying, find one that feels right to you. While a pain, you can always trade up. The AC is going to be poor by modern standards no matter what's been upgraded.

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by monkeyodeath

I chose a 3.2 because I've worked on a lot of Motronic cars in the past and wanted a system that was familiar to me, since I work on my own vehicles.

I also wanted the bigger dash vents because I'm a baby about the heat.

I got a 915 because the cars were less money and I like a funky old car with a funky old transmission.

Compared to two different generations of any other car, the differences between the 3.2 and the SC are exceedingly small, from almost every standpoint. Maintenance and reliability issues will depend much more on the individual car.

I agree with the others - if you don't have specific desires, don't narrow yourself down unnecessarily. Keep an eye out for the best car you can find for the money you're looking to spend.

Take the AC thing into account, too - expect to put a couple grand or more into any of these cars to get really effective air conditioning. Getting a less-pricey 915 car might be worth it for you if you can put the money you saved into getting a great AC system together.

And above all, don't sweat it too much. These cars aren't depreciating - if you're not sure, just focus on getting one that's in good shape. I had a 3.2 cabrio for a while and eventually decided a coupe suited me better instead. Because I got a decent car and took care of it, I was able to sell it and get another one without taking a big financial hit.

I spoke to my mechanic today. He was the chief mechanic and Service Manager for Brumos Porsche for decades. He broke down some of the pros and cons for me. He also prefers the Motronic system over the CIS. Motronic apparently didn't have the fuel issues that the CIS had as far as parts going bad (I'm not familiar with either as I've used the Bosch L-jet and Bosch D-jet on earlier cars).

Yeah, I'm a baby about the heat too. And even if I have to upgrade the AC, it will make a huge difference with the two extra vents in the middle and the two larger vents on either side instead of those skinny...whatever they are. It's 90+ for 3-4 months in NE FL.

The G50 is apparently more reliable as the 915 needs a rebuild occasionally (if it's driven a lot) and because some of the syncros (I dont' remember what he said exactly) can go out of whack or loose. Bonus that it's lighter. I'm used to the 901 so it's more stiff than the 915 with the assist and no breaking clutch cable. And the 915 is lighter. He still prefers the G50 for durability and smooth shifting. I just wish there were two examples here I could test drive. I did drive an 88 G50 a few months ago. Clutch was way stiffer than my 901! It must have been going bad.

I definitely don't want a cabriolet. My long uber curly hair has to be pulled back and gets frizzy enough as it is. And I don't like the soft top look on the 911. I love the curved roof slope of the coupe, but I also like to drive topless (I come from the 914) so a targa would be nice. I love the single wrap-around targa rear windshield. But I'm not crazy about the straight slope of the targa rear and the straight targa top (looks much better on a 914). But I'm sure it's great to drive topless. Can't decide between coupe or targa. Or wing or no wing. I love both. I guess it's just going to come down to the best example that's available that I can afford.

My mechanic, if he had to choose, would choose the 84-85 3.0 Carrera. He likes that engine. Then the 3.2 with the G50. Then the SC, but mostly because of the CIS fuel system. Some on other threads complained that the 3.0 is more expensive to repair and parts are rarer/discontinued. He didn't seem to have an issue as he can get parts for all of them very easily he said. I suppose performance-wise, the 3.0 Carrera, though less powerful than the 3.2, would be lighter with the 915 tranny. I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. Unfortunately for me, he's driven tons of these over the decades. I've driven none. Okay, one with a bad clutch.

[Pstallo]

I have an 86 3.2 Cabriolet with a 915 and A/C. I love that the car has the Motronic because I was able to swap the chip out myself which gave me a fun little HP boost. My AC works just like it did when it was made and it is weak. I am planning to have it upgraded soon. The other upgrade will be some adjustment to the 915 transmission.

I can't speak for the smoothness of the G50, but my 915 is a little clunky after 30 years.

I love the cabriolet, even though I realize you prefer the coupe. The other advantage of the coupe is that you can do driver education days more easily. I will need to install a rollbar to do that.

I doubt there is much of a performance difference between the 3.0 and 3.2. I think your decision should probably be between CIS and Motronic, whichever you prefer to work with.

[pmax]

It's really simple.

Decide on the coupe or targa.

Then buy the first 80-89 you get your hands on which is within your budget.

Really.

[tumamilhem]

So yeah, which brings me to what pros and cons of coupe vs targa?

I know some claim that the targa ALWAYS leaks a little, even when new. I can replace the rubbers and I don't plan on driving it in any downpours (won't be my daily, but weekly fun driver when I come home from work. I put 60-80 a day on my daily). I love the top off. With the targa (like the 914) I can go topless and not have wind everywhere (and nature's AC! ). But I don't care for the looks with the top on. But I do love that rear windshield! Some say it flexes even though there's added stiffeners. I don't track so I'm not worried about that. Then I love the slope of the coupe. Classic. Beautiful. Only if the targa top was curved so. Too many damn decisions. Why can't I just be Magnus Walker and have a few of each? :/

[NYNick]

I'm calling you out on nothing being close to you. Befriend the guys at Brumos; your mechanic already has contacts there. Attend the Suncoast Region PCA socials and meet the guys. There's a PCA DE coming up at Daytona late October…why not check it out and talk to some people? Cruise the Florida boards. There are retirees down there who are constantly selling these cars, and I think it's a great market.

I'm with the coupe crowd, although Targas are easier and cheaper to find. As to the 3.2 versus the 3.0…and 915/G50 debate...well, it's your first Porsche. If you're looking for a more back to basics feel with less weight, the 3.0/915. A little more refined, more power but heavier, 3.2/G50. Either way, you'll be thrilled with a 911, I'm sure. Just make sure you've got a spare $5-10K after the purchase to fix and improve stuff. I guarantee you'll want to do some work.

Good luck!

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by NYNick

I'm calling you out on nothing being close to you. Befriend the guys at Brumos; your mechanic already has contacts there. Attend the Suncoast Region PCA socials and meet the guys. There's a PCA DE coming up at Daytona late October…why not check it out and talk to some people? Cruise the Florida boards. There are retirees down there who are constantly selling these cars, and I think it's a great market.

I'm with the coupe crowd, although Targas are easier and cheaper to find. As to the 3.2 versus the 3.0…and 915/G50 debate...well, it's your first Porsche. If you're looking for a more back to basics feel with less weight, the 3.0/915. A little more refined, more power but heavier, 3.2/G50. Either way, you'll be thrilled with a 911, I'm sure. Just make sure you've got a spare $5-10K after the purchase to fix and improve stuff. I guarantee you'll want to do some work.

Good luck!

All the buys at Brumos are new. Brumos has going southward after the owner died. And all the people that were there for a long time who made it what it was are gone/got let go (including my mechanic who was there for like 30 years and opened shop directly across the street. Then know my Porsche because it's one of only two in the state. But that's it.

I'm not in the PCA. Last I checked membership was pretty expensive. I've been invited to a few events, but they've all been owners of new cars. I have two friends in the PCA who are vintage guys, but they kind of keep to each other.

When/where are the Suncoast Region PCA socials? What Florida boards are you referring to? I'm a bit of a Porsche loaner here.

Anybody here in Northeast Florida?

[island911]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

Okay so if I were to try to narrow the options down, and I'm probably being undecisively redundant, if I got an SC, which would be the better one? An 81-83?

If I got the 3.2 Carrera, go with the 915 or G50? Maybe more power with the 3.2 and less weight with the 915?

Is the 3.0 Carrera the same as the 3.0 SC?

Are you guys sick of me yet? Lol oi...

Splitting hairs, but the 81-83 SC will be the most lively of the bunch.

The earlier SC's and C3.0's have larger intake runners, which aren't as good for midrange power.

The 3.2 have EFI, and tighter emissions mapping, making for less lively throttle response. --more power, but smoothed out (not as snappy)

The 3.2 G50 added a lot of rotational weight, making the throttle response duller yet. but, around town driving is often easier shifting. (fast shifting, I still give to a properly sorted 915)