Advice GREATLY appreciated: Looking for my first 911: '80s SC vs Carrera / 915 vs G50

[tumamilhem]

Okay quick question, I see and 88 3.2 (G50) and an 86 3.2 (915)

With the same engine, what are the performance differences? How about the maintenance differences/frequency (of tranny)? I also read in "The Used 911 Story" that the 86's had some problems:

1. Engine compartment fuel line that supplies the fuel injectors frequently develops cracks and shrinkage. This must be replaced and the manifold will have to be resealed as a result. This is apparently a costly repair.

2. Very high oil consumption due to badly worn valve guides, requiring a top-end valve job that can range from $2.5K-$8K (new valves, piston/cylinder set, rod bearings, head studs). Most of these cars are over 100K miles and it is recommended that any car with that many miles should have this done.

3. Brake calipers piston o-rings deteriorating and becoming sticky, needing to be resealed.

4. Control box for heating system typically goes bad, either blower is burned out, bot blowers or ECU is bad.

5. Sway bars are increased in the front and the rear, making for better responsive driving but the rear two mounting consoles that are welded to the chassis are not strong enough for the larger sway bars and they break.

Anybody had these issues? Would it be worth it to go with the 88 over the 86 because of these issues? A couple thou more would be less than several thou more in potential repairs (my thinking).

Also, as an investment, the last three years are (and will be) worth much more than its fine predecessors. Look at the 70-73 F models. They are the most valued of all the longhoods and now going for almost $100K more than earlier ones (depending on condition). I feel the G models will be the same way. If I were to resell at some point, which I would only if forced to.

[SilberUrS6]

If it's an investment, then all you care about is condition and documentation. 3.0, 3.2, 915, G50 - none of those things matter, just condition and documentation.

If the car is for you and for driving, then the calculus is different. I like my 3.2/915. It is fun to drive. The other considerations do not matter to me when I am behind the wheel.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

Okay quick question, I see and 88 3.2 (G50) and an 86 3.2 (915)

With the same engine, what are the performance differences? How about the maintenance differences/frequency (of tranny)? I also read in "The Used 911 Story" that the 86's had some problems:

Porsche uprated the engine in 1987 from 207 to 217 hp. The early ones probably made more than 207 anyway. The '87 weighed more, because of the gearbox change. I wouldn't think that an '86 will have more problems than an '88. Same crap goes wrong on all of them.

1. Engine compartment fuel line that supplies the fuel injectors frequently develops cracks and shrinkage. This must be replaced and the manifold will have to be resealed as a result. This is apparently a costly repair.

The fuel line does go bad and is expensive. Nothing to do with resealing the manifold.2.

Very high oil consumption due to badly worn valve guides, requiring a top-end valve job that can range from $2.5K-$8K (new valves, piston/cylinder set, rod bearings, head studs). Most of these cars are over 100K miles and it is recommended that any car with that many miles should have this done.

I'd check any 3.2 for bad valve guides and bad head studs. Can be a problem as early as 60k miles. Anything that old can need the case resealed, also.

3. Brake calipers piston o-rings deteriorating and becoming sticky, needing to be resealed.

Pretty much a function of miles, how frequent were the fluid changes and use (how hot did they get, what pads were run, etc.)
4. Control box for heating system typically goes bad, either blower is burned out, bot blowers or ECU is bad.

I've never had an auto heat control box fail. The footwell blower motors are a problem.

5. Sway bars are increased in the front and the rear, making for better responsive driving but the rear two mounting consoles that are welded to the chassis are not strong enough for the larger sway bars and they break.

Reinforcements exist for the rear sway bar mounts. Not a big deal.
Anybody had these issues? Would it be worth it to go with the 88 over the 86 because of these issues? A couple thou more would be less than several thou more in potential repairs (my thinking).

I find the car I like to drive the most and then buy the nicest example of that I can find. Never bought a car for its investment potential.JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

THANK YOU for that education! He was kind of snippy with me on the phone as well when I asked if there had been an engine or tranny rebuild (I always ask). He thought that was a ridiculous question with the miles on it. I pointed out even with low miles, due to age (and sitting around not being driven much, which is the worst thing you can do to an old Porsche), it may need to be resealed, etc. He told me he deals with Porsche mechanics every day and nobody has ever said that.

He's an idiot. Tell him I said so. I had to reseal the engine on an '86 930 I bought new, at 50k miles. Crap happens...

JR

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by tumamilhem

Okay quick question, I see and 88 3.2 (G50) and an 86 3.2 (915)

With the same engine, what are the performance differences? How about the maintenance differences/frequency (of tranny)? I also read in "The Used 911 Story" that the 86's had some problems:

1. Engine compartment fuel line that supplies the fuel injectors frequently develops cracks and shrinkage. This must be replaced and the manifold will have to be resealed as a result. This is apparently a costly repair.

2. Very high oil consumption due to badly worn valve guides, requiring a top-end valve job that can range from $2.5K-$8K (new valves, piston/cylinder set, rod bearings, head studs). Most of these cars are over 100K miles and it is recommended that any car with that many miles should have this done.

3. Brake calipers piston o-rings deteriorating and becoming sticky, needing to be resealed.

4. Control box for heating system typically goes bad, either blower is burned out, bot blowers or ECU is bad.

5. Sway bars are increased in the front and the rear, making for better responsive driving but the rear two mounting consoles that are welded to the chassis are not strong enough for the larger sway bars and they break.

Anybody had these issues? Would it be worth it to go with the 88 over the 86 because of these issues? A couple thou more would be less than several thou more in potential repairs (my thinking).

I have an '87 and in 1 1/2 years of ownership I have either personally dealt with every single one of these, or the car has had those issues in the past. Not to mention I've dealt with more than just these issues. And it's been a kick ass ride the whole time.

1. Fundamentally, the car is 27 years old. The date stamp on the original fuel lines was from '86. I've seen far too many stories on this site of car fires due to those leaking. I had them replaced. It cost money. It was not cheap.

2. Looking through the supplied history of my car, there was a top end done at 52,000 miles due to high oil consumption as a result of worn valve guides. The car currently has 130K miles. As I continue to drive the car I have no doubt this will happen again and I'll need to pay for a top end at some point. It's a car with moving, wearing parts. If you drive it, this will happen.

3. Again, you're dealing with a 27 year old car. It's garaged during the winter. Things stick and go bad. Rubber seals wear out and crack. Regardless of how perfect an example you get, at some point the calipers will need to be rebuilt.

4. I have autoheat. In the history, the control board went bad and had to be replaced. Both footwell blowers were seized, as was the engine compartment blower when I bought it. I bought used ones and replaced all of them. I now have heat. At some point as I continue to drive the car, the flappers will have to be R&R'd. All motors will wear out. I will replace them. It's just what happens when you drive a car.

5. The left rear say mount was broken, as was revealed in the PPI. The guy who did my PPI welded it. If it breaks again, I'll probably upgrade to a kit Elephant or Rennline sell to beef up that spot. Until it happens, I don't worry about it and drive the car.

I don't know how to stress enough that this is a car. Like any car it requires regular maintenance if you drive it (oil change, fuel filter, plugs, rotor, cap, valve adjustment, brake pads, rotors, brake bleed, belt change). Things wear out. Things deteriorate. Things break, even on the most pristine car. That's the deal you make with the car when it goes into your garage. Hence, my suggestion of getting an awesome driver. To me, over time you'll end up spending the same amount of money on the same stuff anyway, regardless of your starting point.

[javadog]

As for the 915/G50 issue... The transmissions are fine when new. Either type can be ruined by an idiot. There are a lot of those (idiots) out there. I'd rather rebuild a 915 than a G50. That's just my preference. Just don't believe that the same idiot that wears out a 915 prematurely won't also toast a G50 before its time.

As an example, my brother bought a new 928, in 1985, that had a manual box with Borg Warner synchros, the same brand as what's in the G50. His girlfriend drove it periodically and 2nd got at little notchy when cold, at 10k miles. That's not the car's fault.

JR

[tumamilhem]

Originally Posted by pmax

Here's a baad car for you, tuma.
Check out those wheels.

1988 Porsche 911 Carrera Targa | GR Auto Gallery

Yeah I saw that. I don't care for the aftermarket fiberglass body and aftermarket wing (or the wheels). I'd rather have an OG body and OG Fuchs. Thanks for the tip though. That's the same place that has the 88 coupe in the pictures I posted.

btw, I am in FL. So no garaging my cars for the winter for me. My 914 is driven 12 months out of the year.

[Maxhouse97]

Disclaimer - I own a G50.

I bought a G50 primarily due to the smoother and faster shift feel. Do not underestimate the degree to which something you interact with so frequently affects the driving experience, as opposed to 20-30 lbs more which you may not feel. There is a reason Porsche chose to upgrade. I also liked all of the incremental improvements noted (a/c vents, t bars, etc.).

That being said, everyone is going to advocate what they currently have/like. Including me. That's why I would take the advice of everyone here - buy on condition and after a drive. But as you mentioned, the market has spoken.

I bought from a Pelicanite - it was great to go back and search on the posts of my car the PO made.