First time height & alignment project - help wanted :)

[Discseven]

Background

Recently loaded 205/55 front and 245/50 rear to see if a few dollars could be saved over going with 205/50 and 245/45 combo. We're talking 16" wheels... 8" front and 9" rear. $370 total for the larger 4 tires balanced & mounted. Unfortunately, these larger diameters don't fit a 911 as my eye sees it--slightly too large IMHO. So, back to original 205/50 F and 245/45 R. Guys at Tires Plus (Bird Rd. near Vertex in Miami) were kind enough to take 4 new tires I "broke in" back without objection (as long as I was willing to spend more $s on smaller tires.)

Reason for DIY alignment

I've never had tires wear evenly on this 911. They consistently suffer on insides. Thought "reputable" shops were doing my alignments but it's increasingly evident in general that few shops genuinely know what they're doing. Jaded? Yup. Justified? Think so. Now, am going to see for myself WTF is going on here... and figure out how to get the new rubber to wear evenly --- it MUST be possible.

Dealing with height & alignment adjustment is new territory for me. Am sure to hit some roadblocks where help will be both needed & appreciated. Will start from beginning so leading comments and pics will be familiar if you visited prior "bye-bye 245" thread...

Old front tires on car a few months ago. Insides going... surprise-surprise!




Left front at time of replacement. Tire here is still holding air. Is also insanely out of balance.




Looking at one of rears. Both sides look the same. Best wear I've ever seen from rears but for being slightly over-inflated and sure... inside wearing.




After loading new tires, I checked front and rear toe with "C" method. Front = toe OUT total 1/8". Rear = toe IN total 1/16". Am not pothole-diver or run-over-curb'r so toe settings should be according to last shop's adjustment. I saw their latest & greatest alignment equip. What I missed seeing was monkey running equipment & wrenches. Can I do better? Sure f'in hope so.


Today...

Have Ray Scruggs booklet so will be referring to that for alignment. Before aligning, am setting height & rake with 30 lbs front and 32 rear tire pressure. Just measured fender heights before diving in. Front side-to-side are = . Rear are = too. (Monkey got that right.) Starting at front... have just turned adjustment 2 rotations clockwise (when looking up from ground) on both sides... No problem here.




Rear end adjustment... not going smoothly. Problem = forward bolts on spring plates on both sides are spinning. Rear bolts both loosen as they should. What am I missing here? Space is too tight to get standard wrench in. Is there special wrench? Plates have moved but not evenly on both sides---left side did not move same as right side (shown below.) Forward bolts remain snug but not tight. Seems whomever set this last walked away from them just snug. Or, both front nuts went loose by themselves. Whatever the case, this needs to be corrected.




Rear (24 mm) nuts on both sides = damm tight. 3' cheater in use.




Before and after...





Hard, tight ride... works for me. '74 Carrera I drove for many years was lower than this. So 'sticky brick' is familiar. Problem with '74 low rider was relentlessly having to watch every inch of road... in other words, 1 manhole a little high = problem. Don't want to drive like that now. So, am going a bit higher here. Will test drive this height a few days before doing alignment. Looking over Scruggs booklet, just noticed he advises sway bars disconnect when leveling car. (TY Ian for assistance with Scruggs.)

Questions:

Resolved: Forward nut & bolt on spring plate... how is bolt kept stationary?
Resolved: How is fender rolled without screwing up paint?

[Driven97]

1/8" of toe out front is on the high side, imho. Ususally toe out causes inside edge wear, toe in outside edge wear, assuming minimal camber. Probably also made the car wander a bit on the freeway? If you still have your old tires, check them for feathering. Toe related wear leaves "sharp" edges in one direction, and "soft" edges in the other.



That's obviously exaggerated, but you can feel the difference if you run your hand across the tread.

Adjusting your front toe to a sixteenth in or so should greatly reduce your wear and still have the car track nice and straight on the freeway. The cars have like no weight up front so they're kind to front tires in normal driving.

Rear wear looks really good, if you're happy with the way the car drives and handles I wouldn't futz with the rear alignment. Lowering may tweak it a bit, but it's such a PITA to align things back there hold off unless it's really bad.

For the rear our host sells a thin wrench for those spring plate bolts. I forget which is which, but one is a cam and the other a lock. Loosen both, turn the cam (from the narrow gap) to get the angle you want, and lock them both down.

Also, it's best practice to measure heights / alignment with the car loaded to it's intended use. If you normally drive solo, add your weight to the driver's seat. Also consider a half tank of gas, as at 6lb per gallon there's a 126 lb difference on the front end between an empty and full tank.

I've never tried to roll a fender, but I've heard using a heat gun to gently warm the paint then going a fraction of a bend at a time is the best bet to keep paint happy. My 225s fit up front no problem, and they're really wide for their rated width - are you getting contact with 205s?

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Driven97

1/8" of toe out front is on the high side, imho. Ususally toe out causes inside edge wear, toe in outside edge wear, assuming minimal camber. Probably also made the car wander a bit on the freeway? If you still have your old tires, check them for feathering. Toe related wear leaves "sharp" edges in one direction, and "soft" edges in the other.



That's obviously exaggerated, but you can feel the difference if you run your hand across the tread.

Adjusting your front toe to a sixteenth in or so should greatly reduce your wear and still have the car track nice and straight on the freeway. The cars have like no weight up front so they're kind to front tires in normal driving.

Rear wear looks really good, if you're happy with the way the car drives and handles I wouldn't futz with the rear alignment. Lowering may tweak it a bit, but it's such a PITA to align things back there hold off unless it's really bad.

For the rear our host sells a thin wrench for those spring plate bolts. I forget which is which, but one is a cam and the other a lock. Loosen both, turn the cam (from the narrow gap) to get the angle you want, and lock them both down.

Also, it's best practice to measure heights / alignment with the car loaded to it's intended use. If you normally drive solo, add your weight to the driver's seat. Also consider a half tank of gas, as at 6lb per gallon there's a 126 lb difference on the front end between an empty and full tank.

I've never tried to roll a fender, but I've heard using a heat gun to gently warm the paint then going a fraction of a bend at a time is the best bet to keep paint happy. My 225s fit up front no problem, and they're really wide for their rated width - are you getting contact with 205s?

Scruggs suggests 1/8" TOE IN at front for street. Don't have old tires. 1/16 toe at rear... I may indeed leave alone---but will check toe again if height stays down... plus will load as you mentioned + 1/2 tank gas. Completely forgot about loading. Wrench... wondering if I can get it local (as it's on "want it right now" list.) Your heat gun comment... sounds reasonable. Don't want to fix height & alignment only to f up paint. Perhaps will put "roll" in paint & body forum. Was thinking about 225s. Decided to go with sizes I already know. TY for input Matt.

Is spring plate bolt head 24 mm like nuts?

[Driven97]

This is the one our host sells. It's 24mm and 36mm.

I bought it and honestly the metal is a little soft - it works, but I'm not super confident in it. I'm sure Google could come up with other options in various price ranges.

[Discseven]

Matt... TY for wrench link. Do you know if the "behind the plate" size is 24 mm? I plan to stop a Snap On truck tomorrow to see if they have.

[Oh Haha]

24 mm wrench can be found at a bicycle shop. A bigger shop would have flat wrenches in many sizes.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

24 mm wrench can be found at a bicycle shop. A bigger shop would have flat wrenches in many sizes.

Thanks Wayne.... bike shop it is.

[Arne2]

I have a set of these from HF - all the sizes you might need. Besides the rear adjusters, I've also used one on the oil pressure sender.

http://www.harborfreight.com/15-piece-metric-service-wrench-set-93668.html

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Arne2

I have a set of these from HF - all the sizes you might need. Besides the rear adjusters, I've also used one on the oil pressure sender.

15 Piece Metric Service Wrench Set

Hey Arne... TY for HF flat wrench link. More than I wanted to spend but might go this route as am having erratic oil level readings---been told to clean sender contacts.

[will hung]

In regards to rolling the fenders. Rent a fender roller. You can do it with other cylinders, but a fender roller will give you the most control so that you can take your time, and decrease the chances of cracking your paint.

First, attache the roller to your hub so that it's ready to go, then get out your heat gun...

With a heat gun, run it back and forth over your fender, but not just on the outside When I rolled mine, I ran the heat gun along the outside for a full sweep, then back aiming straight up at the lip a full sweep, then back again aiming at the inside, then I swept back from outside the fender aiming straight down at the fender flair. I kept doing this until the entire fender had a nice even temperature and was fairly hot to the touch.

I then set up my fender roller and aimed to roll only about a 2" length of the fender and only intended to bend the lip a little. I then concentrated my heat gun to that area, overlapping about an inch or two beyond my 2" length, but also sweeping the heat gun to maintain heat in the fender.

I crept along the fender in 2" increments until I was at the end. And then repeated rolling the lip a little more. I think I did the entire roll in about 4 or 5 passes, just a little at a time.

The key is lots of heat in the paint to make it more pliable and rolling the fender in small increments so that the paint isn't forced to do too much at one time.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by will hung

In regards to rolling the fenders. Rent a fender roller. You can do it with other cylinders, but a fender roller will give you the most control so that you can take your time, and decrease the chances of cracking your paint.

First, attache the roller to your hub so that it's ready to go, then get out your heat gun...

With a heat gun, run it back and forth over your fender, but not just on the outside When I rolled mine, I ran the heat gun along the outside for a full sweep, then back aiming straight up at the lip a full sweep, then back again aiming at the inside, then I swept back from outside the fender aiming straight down at the fender flair. I kept doing this until the entire fender had a nice even temperature and was fairly hot to the touch.

I then set up my fender roller and aimed to roll only about a 2" length of the fender and only intended to bend the lip a little. I then concentrated my heat gun to that area, overlapping about an inch or two beyond my 2" length, but also sweeping the heat gun to maintain heat in the fender.

I crept along the fender in 2" increments until I was at the end. And then repeated rolling the lip a little more. I think I did the entire roll in about 4 or 5 passes, just a little at a time.

The key is lots of heat in the paint to make it more pliable and rolling the fender in small increments so that the paint isn't forced to do too much at one time.

Just looked at few vids on subject. Rollers as you mention Will. Baseball bats. Pipes wrapped in tape. Now I get. Thanks for rental suggestion. Am looking into that.

[Driven97]

IIRC the Eastwood roller doesn't fit the Porsche bolt pattern. Someone made an adapted version that fits and was renting it out a few years ago, not sure if they still are.

[NoYouRelax]

Karl,

I think you and I were doing the same Targa lowering project this week with the same problem, that spinning front bolt. I ended up buying that thin wrench set from HFT but could not make it work.....I had no idea the front bolt was 24 MM. As you know it is a blind effort. I will attempt this again shortly with more knowledge now.

BTW your final stance looks great. Do you have wheel spacers on the front or rear wheels?

[will hung]

I used this website's service to rent a roller.
RollYourFender.Com - Home - Fast, Easy, & Affordable Professional Fender Lip Roller Rental

Their service was great and you can rent the Porsche bolt pattern adapter. They also include a heat gun.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Driven97

IIRC the Eastwood roller doesn't fit the Porsche bolt pattern. Someone made an adapted version that fits and was renting it out a few years ago, not sure if they still are.

Good heads up on IIRC Matt. TY

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by NoYouRelax

Karl,

I think you and I were doing the same Targa lowering project this week with the same problem, that spinning front bolt. I ended up buying that thin wrench set from HFT but could not make it work.....I had no idea the front bolt was 24 MM. As you know it is a blind effort. I will attempt this again shortly with more knowledge now.

BTW your final stance looks great. Do you have wheel spacers on the front or rear wheels?

Been waiting to see if anyone else had a front spinner. Feel better now that I know am not alone --- TY NOYOU! Yaya... we're on same page as it were. TY on stance. No spacers. 8" fronts... 9" rears. Was thinking about spacers on rear... just haven't gotten to it yet. So many other things to deal with. Sure you can relate.

Checked local bike places for 24 mm flat wrench and they had them... just didn't want to sell them. Tried some tool places too and... nothing. Finally decided to go to ACE and put on creative hat. Was thinking that back side might grab once nut was tight enough so... might be a matter of keeping bolt from initially spinning. Got this narrow jaw vice grip...



F'in thing worked.

Do have new problems on hand...

1) Can't even out my spring plates. Want to adjust side that rides lower than the other but can't get spring plate to move down.

2) Lots of creaking coming from back now when suspension travels.

Checked toe both front and back and more toe OUT resulted from lowering. Will post pics & notes tomorrow morning on today's alignment progress.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by will hung

I used this website's service to rent a roller.
RollYourFender.Com - Home - Fast, Easy, & Affordable Professional Fender Lip Roller Rental

Their service was great and you can rent the Porsche bolt pattern adapter. They also include a heat gun.

$75 not including shipping. Not bad. TY for link Will. Am curious... have you done both a bat and this gizmo roll? Bottom line... can you compare them for us?

[ClickClickBoom]

Corner balance! Now that you jacked with the ride height, the corners now must be balanced or it will possibly be wiggly, and your tires will wear like erasers.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom

...corners now must be balanced or it will possibly be wiggly, and your tires will wear like erasers.

Good one BOOM! I've heard of "corner balancing." Will see if that's in Scruggs booklet. TY for notice.

[Oh Haha]

The best way to corner balance is to have a shop that is familiar with 911s do it. If that is not an option the "tripod" method can be used at home to get it pretty close.