How difficult to completely rewire a 911?

[SiberianDVM]

I'm looking at buying a roller 911, to bring my wrecked, dead 1984 3.2 Carrera back to life.

At this point I'm leaning towards a dedicated track car, probably minimally street legal.

Some of the rollers I have looked at have been completely stripped, including all wiring. I could probably salvage most of the wiring from my 911, but I imagine that would take a very long time to remove it and reinstall it.

Is there an "easy" way to install a minimal, but effective wiring harness in a mid-year 911?

[zl0ca]

A forum member makes and sells all wiring harnesses for P-cars. I would recommend going that route instead of trying to salvage something from another car. If they both are 3.2's you should be ok.

[DUK]

American Auto wire has a vw harness that works.

[mreid]

Painless wiring makes some universal wiring harnesses. For a dedicated track rat, their 10 circuit set up would become perfect. Here's a link to about 70 different versions, but the 10 circuit would be right for you. I've installed about a dozen and they are straight forward:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/ignitions-electrical/section/electrical-wiring/brand/painless-performance/part-type/wiring-harnesses?N=4294951516%2B4294949706%2B400012%2B429 4945101&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Btw, their installation manual is worth the price of the harness:

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/prf-5001_5002_50101_50201_50202.pdf

[Jack Stands]

I'd also think that installing a new harness would be much easier than wrestling with 40 year old wires. A track car really needs some very simple wiring compared with a street Carrera. Just getting the heat/AC wiring and blowers out of the car would remove tons of circuits!

[SiberianDVM]

Nice! Thanks.

I'd kind of like to keep the heat/defrost and blowers and lights, though. The DEs early and late in the season make for some frosty mornings.

[timmy2]

I have built stripped down harness sections deleting extra circuits in the car for people.
Still a lot of work to do the R&R as it is best to use the existing harness sections to modify or copy to keep what you want to remain functional.

[HawgRyder]

Personally...I like new wire.
It has no bad or burned spots...the ends get put on correctly....the system gets checked out one circuit at a time.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by HawgRyder

Personally...I like new wire.
It has no bad or burned spots...the ends get put on correctly....the system gets checked out one circuit at a time.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

So do I, I only use the old harness for a pattern.

[jittsl]

I have done several rewires on 911s including resuscitating 40yo harnesses. I'm thinking that Porsche used pretty good quality wire back in the day because I was able to reuse 99% of the original wire in almost every case. The biggest problems I always have are when an owner has modified or added something. As to reinstalling the harness from your wrecked car? I don't know how badly it was wrecked but 911s have their harnesses in big chunks and aren't hard to figure out. 1 harness runs from the front all the way to the engine with very few branches along the way (brake pedal, hand brake, starter, engine), 2nd harness runs behind the dash and hooks up with a 3rd harness in front of the dash, a bunch of instruments, some relays, wipers and other Acc., harness 1 and the fuse box and the 3rd, mentioned above, covers the switches and stuff in front of the dash. Apart from those there are just a few minor harnesses that cover F&R lights etc, horns and a few other very minor stuff. It wouldn't be that hard to revive your old harness. The upside of doing so is that you will be able to rebuild to original specs and therefore trace any issues. If you want to do it properly without an old harness you will have to source from Europe a few hundred different wires with different color combinations.

[Hcarraro]

Subscribed

[redturbo911]

This will be a good one. I hate dealing with all the wires. Keep us posted.

[SiberianDVM]

Originally Posted by jittsl

I have done several rewires on 911s including resuscitating 40yo harnesses. I'm thinking that Porsche used pretty good quality wire back in the day because I was able to reuse 99% of the original wire in almost every case. The biggest problems I always have are when an owner has modified or added something. As to reinstalling the harness from your wrecked car? I don't know how badly it was wrecked but 911s have their harnesses in big chunks and aren't hard to figure out. 1 harness runs from the front all the way to the engine with very few branches along the way (brake pedal, hand brake, starter, engine), 2nd harness runs behind the dash and hooks up with a 3rd harness in front of the dash, a bunch of instruments, some relays, wipers and other Acc., harness 1 and the fuse box and the 3rd, mentioned above, covers the switches and stuff in front of the dash. Apart from those there are just a few minor harnesses that cover F&R lights etc, horns and a few other very minor stuff. It wouldn't be that hard to revive your old harness. The upside of doing so is that you will be able to rebuild to original specs and therefore trace any issues. If you want to do it properly without an old harness you will have to source from Europe a few hundred different wires with different color combinations.

Good info, thanks.

I will talk it over with the shop owner where the wreck currently resides. We are still waiting on Georgia Farm Bureau Insurance, may their pubic hairs be infested by ravenous lice, to make a fair settlement before we get started.

The impact was mostly to the left front and then down the left side, so the battery and fuse panel got taken out for sure. I like the idea of using as much of the original harnesses as possible, but I think I might like to go with a more modern fuse panel.

[gerakroo]

We can help you with this, we produce harnesses for almost every classic Porsche and also design and manufacture a lot custom harnesses.

Check out our website: www.kroonwireharnesses.com


Gerard Kroon

[timmy2]

Many have adapted to an ATO fuse panel with original harness. Fred Cook makes a nice unit.

Yes, the many sections of the harnesses in our cars can be replaced, repaired or re-used.

I'm doing a complete 73.5 harness restoration right now for someone. Some areas need repair, some pieces need replacement and others just need thorough cleaning with my ultrasonic cleaner.

One thing I won't do is splice new wires to the old rubber cast six pin connectors and call it new! I will re-cast them in new rubber with new wire soldered to the terminal in the connectors if the original cannot be re-used.

I don't understand the need to import wire from Europe as someone posted, I buy the correct custom ordered striped wire here in the USA.
And yes, I have the over 100 different color combinations needed.

Good luck with your insurance company, never a good time dealing with them...

[SpyderMike]

Siberian DVM,

In my backdate project I am in the process of removing as much of the wiring as I can to reduce the systems I don't want.

so this is how a backdate project starts...

I am trying to take it out cleanly. I took out the original fuse block, and have harness supporting Cruise Control, Headlight washers, A/C, warning system, some of the Autoheat, etc.. If there is something you need, just ask. Mine is a 1985 targa that I have owned for some 25 years.

I am relocating the battery to the smugglers box and breaking up the fuse blocks into a few small sections.

Mike

[gerakroo]

All color combinations are (not always) available here in Europe and probably also in the US. Only challenge is to get them in the combination of the right quality and suitable for automotive use.
Thats why we order our wire from several suppliers from different countries.
There's only one which is custom made and thats the the black/white/green wire.
We just started with 914 harnesses as well, and therefore had to look for a few more combinations. There are a lot of combinations and i'm sure we have every one of them but over 100 different color combinations seem a little bit much to me ?
Wiring and rubber are not so easy to reproduce especially not in the same quality Porsche used ! Rubber in the wrong quality can easily get deteriorated after being exposed to the combination of oil, fuel and heat. I had some original connectors send to rubber company's here in the Netherlands and trust me this is not something you can reproduce behind the kitchen table. New original 6 pole connectors (male and female) are still available but very,very expensive.
For the wiring of our early car's Porsche used Leoni (maybe they still are) and we also use that wiring a lot.
We deliver our harnesses also to some classic dept of Porsche and beside being a little proud of that i think its also nice we use the same brand again in our new wiring for their (fresh restored) old car's !

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by gerakroo

All color combinations are (not always) available here in Europe and probably also in the US. Only challenge is to get them in the combination of the right quality and suitable for automotive use.
Thats why we order our wire from several suppliers from different countries.
There's only one which is custom made and thats the the black/white/green wire.
We just started with 914 harnesses as well, and therefore had to look for a few more combinations. There are a lot of combinations and i'm sure we have every one of them but over 100 different color combinations seem a little bit much to me ?
Wiring and rubber are not so easy to reproduce especially not in the same quality Porsche used ! Rubber in the wrong quality can easily get deteriorated after being exposed to the combination of oil, fuel and heat. I had some original connectors send to rubber company's here in the Netherlands and trust me this is not something you can reproduce behind the kitchen table. New original 6 pole connectors (male and female) are still available but very,very expensive.
For the wiring of our early car's Porsche used Leoni (maybe they still are) and we also use that wiring a lot.
We deliver our harnesses also to some classic dept of Porsche and beside being a little proud of that i think its also nice we use the same brand again in our new wiring for their (fresh restored) old car's !

Gerald,
You make a great product and I have recommended your business to many people.

The 100 different wire/color combinations I referenced earlier also include the various wire gauges, not just the colors. (0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 2.0 etc.)

In regards to making new connectors, they are cast with automotive grade Urethane rubber with the correct shore hardness and even though they are not made in a factory like the originals, (just my shop) they will withstand the rigors of the environment they are in.
My wife would kill me if I tried to make them at the kitchen table! Running the vacuum pump is noisy too!

Yes, using original connectors is ideal, but when they are involved in a short circuit as some of those I have replaced, they shouldn't be re-used.

[jittsl]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

Good info, thanks.

I will talk it over with the shop owner where the wreck currently resides. We are still waiting on Georgia Farm Bureau Insurance, may their pubic hairs be infested by ravenous lice, to make a fair settlement before we get started.

The impact was mostly to the left front and then down the left side, so the battery and fuse panel got taken out for sure. I like the idea of using as much of the original harnesses as possible, but I think I might like to go with a more modern fuse panel.

With the exception of my 69 (which I've tried to as original as possible) I have usually replaced the fuse box with an ATO box - normally found on eBay. Because the original connection is made with a stripped wire held in place with a screw it is very easy to put new connectors on and not effect the length of the wires.

[timmy2]

Many threads have been posted about ATO panels.
Some appear to be better than others for ease of installation, quality, current capacity and appearance.
Lots of options out there.