Fogs, or No Fogs?

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by sp_cs

Click the link in my signature - both me and my brother have gone foglight less, preferring the cleaner look

Carrera brothers! I love it! Cars look great!

I just removed the fogs. 1974 grams = 4.35193 lbs gone!

The next question is, where can I get inexpensive running light rubber to get that Euro look on my bumper? Any used ones out there?

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by DeRRis

Here's one without fogs.

Beautiful car DeRRis! Really clean and very sharp!

[sp_cs]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

Carrera brothers! I love it! Cars look great!

I just removed them. 1974 grams = 4.35193 lbs gone!

The next question is, where can I get inexpensive running light rubber to get that Euro look on my bumper? Any used ones out there?

Thanks for the compliment!

This UK site has them new - Bumper Rubber Trim - Items - Type 911

[Craig_D]

Thanks for the link!

Here are some comparison before/after pics:

Head on:



3/4 front:



I like the cleaner look for sure. I just need to plug the holes (or cut out brake duct cooling)

[86 ssinit]

Fogs off.

[na2ub]

I used my right fog hole to duct to my fender carerra cooler. As of now my left fog is still there.

[FastCarFan]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

"Carrera headlights"...there are a few options here. Proper European H4s with the relay and 80/100 watts (what I'm running) is very very bright. This is one of the main reasons that the fogs are useless.

You should look into relays if you don't have them already, and H4 Euros for sure

I have H4s, but they are still pretty bad compared to almost any other car. I installed higher wattage bulbs, but my Porsche mechanic warned it could cause problems with the wiring because it's not designed to handle them. And he said it has nothing to do with the relay - it's the gauge of the wire that could cause the problem. So I reinstalled the stock bulbs.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

I always use mine at night because the Carrera headlights need all the help they can get. Seriously.

I'm not sure how the fogs can possibly help. They don't have much throw, and the throw they do have is right in front of the car, and much more to the sides than the headlamps. IOW, they fill the space not directly illuminated by the headlamps, and unless you are driving 10mph, they won't illuminate anything any better than your headlamps.

To prove it to yourself, on a dark night park on the side of the road and run your headlamps. Then turn on your foglamps and see if you can see anything any further down the road. The big test is when you cover your headlamps with cardboard to show yourself what the actual beam pattern looks like. Even worse, some folks try and re-aim their foglamps to act more like headlamps, which also does nothing for distance. It just throws more light to the sides and up, right into the faces of drivers in the other direction.

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

... he said it has nothing to do with the relay

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the voltage for the headlights (without the relay) runs all the way up to your steering wheel stalk, and then to the headlights.

When I installed the relay (before the Euro H4s) there was a significant bump in light output. Another bump in light output with the H4s. They're quite bright.

It also solves the stalk issue of lights cutting out. My high beams cut out on me before I installed the relays in '09 and they've never cut out since.

Also, there is a wire/plug upgrade that you can do for the Euro H4s that will help them handle the high output bulbs. It's in my sugar scoop to H4 conversion thread. I'll dig up the link.

[$ Short]

I picked up SC valance from a fellow pelican and will also be going fog gone.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

... he said it has nothing to do with the relay

Originally Posted by Craig_D

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the voltage for the headlights (without the relay) runs all the way up to your steering wheel stalk, and then to the headlights. The relay will shorten the wire path to just a few feet to reduce the resistance. This would be a good idea even if the current didn't pass through all the switches in the dash and inside the car.

When I installed the relay (before the Euro H4s) there was a significant bump in light output. Another bump in light output with the H4s. They're quite bright.

It also solves the stalk issue of lights cutting out. My high beams cut out on me before I installed the relays in '09 and they've never cut out since.

Also, there is a wire/plug upgrade that you can do for the Euro H4s that will help them handle the high output bulbs. It's in my sugar scoop to H4 conversion thread. I'll dig up the link.

A big +1 on this. The factory setup has no relay on the headlights. The voltage/current drain from all the resistance of the wiring back through the dash, headlight switch and signal light stalk is significant and affects the light output of the headlights.

In addition, the plastic H5 lights on your '88 were never known for their light output to a correct, useable place on the road, regardless of the bulb wattage. The best course for improving lighting on your car is a headlight relay for wiring safety and switch longevity, and a headlight backdate to sugar scoops with 7" round H4 lights or to the (more expensive) Euro H4s. Even without high output bulbs, either headlight change will make a HUGE difference in your on the road lighting.

The factory fogs really aren't designed to throw the light down the road as they're a 'fog' light and spread illumination low and wide for a short distance in front of the car. Besides, yours are likely all sand blasted and pitted so are even dimmer. And just try to find new replacement lenses for the Carrera fogs...

[wwest]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

I always use mine at night because the Carrera headlights need all the help they can get. Seriously.

Fog lights, ACTUAL fog lights, always have a low and wide, close-in, beam pattern, only intended to be used in daytime ground fog conditions that dictate DEAD SLOW speeds.

Laws REQUIRE that main beams be used in ALL night time conditions, making the close-in fog light beam pattern USELESS!

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

A big +1 on this. The factory setup has no relay on the headlights. The voltage/current drain from all the resistance of the wiring back through the dash, headlight switch and signal light stalk is significant and affects the light output of the headlights.

In addition, the plastic H5 lights on your '88 were never known for their light output to a correct, useable place on the road, regardless of the bulb wattage. The best course for improving lighting on your car is a headlight relay for wiring safety and switch longevity, and a headlight backdate to sugar scoops with 7" round H4 lights or to the (more expensive) Euro H4s. Even without high output bulbs, either headlight change will make a HUGE difference in your on the road lighting.

The factory fogs really aren't designed to throw the light down the road as they're a 'fog' light and spread illumination low and wide for a short distance in front of the car. Besides, yours are likely all sand blasted and pitted so are even dimmer. And just try to find new replacement lenses for the Carrera fogs...

The very BEST upgrade is an HID hi/lo kit that also includes a relay setup.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by wwest

The very BEST upgrade is an HID hi/lo kit that also includes a relay setup.

HIDs usually require a bunch of fabrication and cutting of the headlight bucket to fit the light assembly. Then the lens has to be changed out for one that's clear so the light from the shiny new HIDs doesn't get scattered all over the place. Sure it's doable and may possibly even give slightly better lighting than a Euro H4 solution, but I didn't get the feeling that FastCarFan was up for that kind of modification. My apologies if that's the case.

And most HID retrofits seem a little out of place to my eyes. The ones in the Singers look not too bad, but they also have the chrome looking projector surrounds, kinda mimicking a factory like appearance but with a modern twist.

I'm also not convinced of the superiority of HID illumination. I have yet to read anything that proves they're better than a GOOD incandescent system. Even in my own personal, and admittedly not quantitatively measured, experience, my 3 series Bimmer HIDs don't illuminate any more than the 80/100 watt H4s on my 911. Sure, the light colour (4400 K) is different and the bluish white colour temperature might give the illusion of better illunmination, but it doesn't seem to offer any. And it's colour also strains my eyes a bit more during a long night time drive, especially in the winter with all the snow.

And HID bulbs in a light designed for incandescents? Uhh, no comparison.

HIDs DO use a lot less electricity if that's a concern - 35 watts versus 100 watts in my cars on high beam.


But that doesn't address the OP's question...

[Canada Kev]

Craig, the car looks great with no fogs. Thanks for the pics

I was also considering this mod in my Carrera. However, I'd have to get a new valence so I didn't have a couple of big holes where the lights were. I do use my fogs on the highway mostly for visibility to other drivers even in good conditions. I've installed 35 watt bulbs so the plastic surrounds don't get over heated. I don't use my headlights in that situation because of the 80 watt low beams. Maybe I'm just being over cautious...

I'd personally leave the wiring and just secure it behind the bumper or something. The next care taker of the car might just want the fogs.

I also have rear fogs (located in the rear reflector strip and not the below the bumper light) so they'd stay as I find them useful in poor visibility conditions, especially at night. The factory tail lights aren't all that significant, and the rear fogs give just that little bit of 'don't rear end me in the fog when I'm driving slowly' kind of security.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

HIDs usually require a bunch of fabrication and cutting of the headlight bucket to fit the light assembly. Then the lens has to be changed out for one that's clear so the light from the shiny new HIDs doesn't get scattered all over the place. Sure it's doable and may possibly even give slightly better lighting than a Euro H4 solution, but I didn't get the feeling that FastCarFan was up for that kind of modification. My apologies if that's the case.

And most HID retrofits seem a little out of place to my eyes. The ones in the Singers look not too bad, but they also have the chrome looking projector surrounds, kinda mimicking a factory like appearance but with a modern twist.

I'm also not convinced of the superiority of HID illumination. I have yet to read anything that proves they're better than a GOOD incandescent system. Even in my own personal, and admittedly not quantitatively measured, experience, my 3 series Bimmer HIDs don't illuminate any more than the 80/100 watt H4s on my 911. Sure, the light colour (4400 K) is different and the bluish white colour temperature might give the illusion of better illunmination, but it doesn't seem to offer any. And it's colour also strains my eyes a bit more during a long night time drive, especially in the winter with all the snow.

And HID bulbs in a light designed for incandescents? Uhh, no comparison.

HIDs DO use a lot less electricity if that's a concern - 35 watts versus 100 watts in my cars on high beam.


But that doesn't address the OP's question...

Newer HID bulbs are plug-n-play, socket compatible, with Factory (88) headlights.

The new "micro" ballasts easily fit inside the headlight bucket.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

I do use my fogs on the highway mostly for visibility to other drivers even in good conditions.

During the day, go ahead and do this, I don't think it matters much. At night, PLEASE don't. Your headlamps provide plenty enough light to be noticed from more than a mile away. The extra light thrown in the eyes of oncoming drivers really sucks.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

During the day, go ahead and do this, I don't think it matters much. At night, PLEASE don't. Your headlamps provide plenty enough light to be noticed from more than a mile away. The extra light thrown in the eyes of oncoming drivers really sucks.

As several have now said, fog light beam pattern is low and wide, no chance of being thrown in the eyes of oncoming drivers.

On the other hand you may be seeing driving lights placed in the fog light position, as is the case, seemingly, with Ops car.

[911SauCy]

No fogs. Less is more. Aside from the fact that they look like an Auto Zone bolt-on from the factory

[Josh D]

Another fan of no fogs. I don't think mine originally had them, but had been added on as the wiring and switch didn't look factory. I promptly removed them and never looked back.

I also don't require a front license plate, so welded up the holes in the valance for a clean look.