Fogs, or No Fogs?
 

I've been toying with the idea of doing a fog light delete and wanted some opinions and pictures of fog deletes on an SC.

The reasons:
1. I'm tired of replacing the bulbs when the temps turn cold (and filaments get brittle)
2. They're not really that helpful or bright
3. After my Euro H4 install, they're even less needed
4. Less weight means more fun.

Here's a picture comparison. Note: new lenses on old fog lights make them look great in this pic, but they don't look awesome in person.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420391676.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420391691.jpg


So what do others think?

Show me pics of SC without fogs.

Cheers,

- Craig_D

I prefer having the fog lights. I like the old style look. If they had yellow lenses it would be even cooler. How much weight savings is it? 2-3lbs?

They're not that useful as lights, and yes 2-3 lbs. I've already pulled a couple hundred pounds off of my car (by doing a lot of small reductions and some large ones) and every little bit adds up. Especially at the far corners.

I'd like to see some delete pics to help me make the decision. Also, what did folks do with the wiring (remove, or just tuck away?)?

remove them. I am thinking about the same. Especially as their are absolutely useless. Question is what to do with the opening. Weld it shut, get a new valance or just keep it open..

I just removed them from my Carrera after some 25 years of ownership. Can't remember ever using them.

I've seen that folks use plastic grommets to plug the holes. That's why I'm hoping to see some pictures of what other people did. :)

If you are going to remove them you should also mount up an SCrs front bumper :-)

I like the look with them.

I always liked the look as well, but also always thought they should be round...
Exploring options myself as my old ones are toasty.

Anyone have pictures of their fog delete, and what they've done with wiring, relays, plunger switch, etc?

With our without, it's personal preference on each point. there's some pics without in them in the modified bumpers thread. I'd agree on the without route especially if you're already on the slippery slope of lightening the car.

Now if you could only do something about that hideous license plate!

I always use mine at night because the Carrera headlights need all the help they can get. Seriously.

While my '75 is not an SC, I think it's close enough in this regard to comment.

I upgraded the headlights to H4's. I removed the fog lights and cut openings in the front valence in approximately the same location and size as the fog lights. I installed some bright aluminum mesh to provide an offset color difference (front valence is black). One opening connects to duct work that shrouds the fender-mounted oil cooler (and I've got a booster fan in there if things get really hot). The other is just wide open.

Less Weight, no Brainer

"Carrera headlights"...there are a few options here. Proper European H4s with the relay and 80/100 watts (what I'm running) is very very bright. This is one of the main reasons that the fogs are useless.

You should look into relays if you don't have them already, and H4 Euros for sure.

Agreed, and agreed! I used to run with no front plate, but I got a bunch of tickets when parked in the city. :(

That's a good idea. I may run brake cooler ducts through the front valance. It depends...eventually I'm going with TRE fiberglass front/rear bumpers so I may wait to run ducts for that setup..

Haha. Yep. ;)

I don't have any pictures to share but I do have an opinion to share, since you asked. I never really liked the fog lights on the SC's. They look like an after thought. The 84-89 fog lights look more integrated with the front valance.

If I really wanted to keep fog lights on my SC, I would upgrade to the 84-89 fogs/valence. Other than that, I would just take them off.

Here's one without fogs.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps041db417.jpg

Less is more.

When I got my SC they were the first things that ended up in the bin. There was also a red one on the back too. Extra brake light I guess.

Click the link in my signature - both me and my brother have gone foglight less, preferring the cleaner look

No fogs on mine, I think it looks cleaner:

http://i.imgur.com/YvOkYIE.jpg

Carrera brothers! I love it! Cars look great!

I just removed the fogs. 1974 grams = 4.35193 lbs gone!

The next question is, where can I get inexpensive running light rubber to get that Euro look on my bumper? Any used ones out there?

Beautiful car DeRRis! Really clean and very sharp!

Thanks for the compliment!

This UK site has them new - Bumper Rubber Trim - Items - Type 911

Thanks for the link!

Here are some comparison before/after pics:

Head on:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420411375.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420411422.jpg

3/4 front:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420411402.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420411452.jpg

I like the cleaner look for sure. I just need to plug the holes (or cut out brake duct cooling)

Fogs off. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420414160.jpg

I used my right fog hole to duct to my fender carerra cooler. As of now my left fog is still there.

I have H4s, but they are still pretty bad compared to almost any other car. I installed higher wattage bulbs, but my Porsche mechanic warned it could cause problems with the wiring because it's not designed to handle them. And he said it has nothing to do with the relay - it's the gauge of the wire that could cause the problem. So I reinstalled the stock bulbs.

I'm not sure how the fogs can possibly help. They don't have much throw, and the throw they do have is right in front of the car, and much more to the sides than the headlamps. IOW, they fill the space not directly illuminated by the headlamps, and unless you are driving 10mph, they won't illuminate anything any better than your headlamps.

To prove it to yourself, on a dark night park on the side of the road and run your headlamps. Then turn on your foglamps and see if you can see anything any further down the road. The big test is when you cover your headlamps with cardboard to show yourself what the actual beam pattern looks like. Even worse, some folks try and re-aim their foglamps to act more like headlamps, which also does nothing for distance. It just throws more light to the sides and up, right into the faces of drivers in the other direction.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the voltage for the headlights (without the relay) runs all the way up to your steering wheel stalk, and then to the headlights.

When I installed the relay (before the Euro H4s) there was a significant bump in light output. Another bump in light output with the H4s. They're quite bright.

It also solves the stalk issue of lights cutting out. My high beams cut out on me before I installed the relays in '09 and they've never cut out since.

Also, there is a wire/plug upgrade that you can do for the Euro H4s that will help them handle the high output bulbs. It's in my sugar scoop to H4 conversion thread. I'll dig up the link.

I picked up SC valance from a fellow pelican and will also be going fog gone.

A big +1 on this. The factory setup has no relay on the headlights. The voltage/current drain from all the resistance of the wiring back through the dash, headlight switch and signal light stalk is significant and affects the light output of the headlights.

In addition, the plastic H5 lights on your '88 were never known for their light output to a correct, useable place on the road, regardless of the bulb wattage. The best course for improving lighting on your car is a headlight relay for wiring safety and switch longevity, and a headlight backdate to sugar scoops with 7" round H4 lights or to the (more expensive) Euro H4s. Even without high output bulbs, either headlight change will make a HUGE difference in your on the road lighting.

The factory fogs really aren't designed to throw the light down the road as they're a 'fog' light and spread illumination low and wide for a short distance in front of the car. Besides, yours are likely all sand blasted and pitted so are even dimmer. And just try to find new replacement lenses for the Carrera fogs...

Fog lights, ACTUAL fog lights, always have a low and wide, close-in, beam pattern, only intended to be used in daytime ground fog conditions that dictate DEAD SLOW speeds.

Laws REQUIRE that main beams be used in ALL night time conditions, making the close-in fog light beam pattern USELESS!

The very BEST upgrade is an HID hi/lo kit that also includes a relay setup.

HIDs usually require a bunch of fabrication and cutting of the headlight bucket to fit the light assembly. Then the lens has to be changed out for one that's clear so the light from the shiny new HIDs doesn't get scattered all over the place. Sure it's doable and may possibly even give slightly better lighting than a Euro H4 solution, but I didn't get the feeling that FastCarFan was up for that kind of modification. My apologies if that's the case.

And most HID retrofits seem a little out of place to my eyes. The ones in the Singers look not too bad, but they also have the chrome looking projector surrounds, kinda mimicking a factory like appearance but with a modern twist.

I'm also not convinced of the superiority of HID illumination. I have yet to read anything that proves they're better than a GOOD incandescent system. Even in my own personal, and admittedly not quantitatively measured, experience, my 3 series Bimmer HIDs don't illuminate any more than the 80/100 watt H4s on my 911. Sure, the light colour (4400 K) is different and the bluish white colour temperature might give the illusion of better illunmination, but it doesn't seem to offer any. And it's colour also strains my eyes a bit more during a long night time drive, especially in the winter with all the snow.

And HID bulbs in a light designed for incandescents? Uhh, no comparison.

HIDs DO use a lot less electricity if that's a concern - 35 watts versus 100 watts in my cars on high beam.


But that doesn't address the OP's question...

Craig, the car looks great with no fogs. Thanks for the pics

I was also considering this mod in my Carrera. However, I'd have to get a new valence so I didn't have a couple of big holes where the lights were. I do use my fogs on the highway mostly for visibility to other drivers even in good conditions. I've installed 35 watt bulbs so the plastic surrounds don't get over heated. I don't use my headlights in that situation because of the 80 watt low beams. Maybe I'm just being over cautious...

I'd personally leave the wiring and just secure it behind the bumper or something. The next care taker of the car might just want the fogs.

I also have rear fogs (located in the rear reflector strip and not the below the bumper light) so they'd stay as I find them useful in poor visibility conditions, especially at night. The factory tail lights aren't all that significant, and the rear fogs give just that little bit of 'don't rear end me in the fog when I'm driving slowly' kind of security.

Newer HID bulbs are plug-n-play, socket compatible, with Factory (88) headlights.

The new "micro" ballasts easily fit inside the headlight bucket.

During the day, go ahead and do this, I don't think it matters much. At night, PLEASE don't. Your headlamps provide plenty enough light to be noticed from more than a mile away. The extra light thrown in the eyes of oncoming drivers really sucks.

As several have now said, fog light beam pattern is low and wide, no chance of being thrown in the eyes of oncoming drivers.

On the other hand you may be seeing driving lights placed in the fog light position, as is the case, seemingly, with Ops car.

No fogs. Less is more. Aside from the fact that they look like an Auto Zone bolt-on from the factory :rolleyes:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420464197.jpg

Another fan of no fogs. I don't think mine originally had them, but had been added on as the wiring and switch didn't look factory. I promptly removed them and never looked back.

I also don't require a front license plate, so welded up the holes in the valance for a clean look.

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps732e43fe.jpg