Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
scarceller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern MA
Posts: 3,972
Garage
Wide Band O2 sensors, must know info!

This topic has come up several times when talking among tuners I respect. I want to share some important details about WBO2 sensors and using them properly. Your motor's health may depend on this information!

So, how much faith do you have in your WBO2 sensor?
You sure it's telling you the truth?

A WBO2 sensor's accuracy by design is heavily influenced by exhaust pressure. Bosch specs even state so very clearly.

Are you sure the bung/location you have put your WBO2 sensor in is not being influenced by exhaust pressure? You need to know, here's why?

Exhaust pressure will deviate the WBO2 lambda reading following this equation:

lambda|corrected = lambda|displayed - ((lambda|displayed -1)/a)*Pexh
Where:
a = 39.3 for lean mixtures, and 33.3 for rich mixtures
Pexh = exhaust pressure in "Hg above the pressure at which the sensor was calibrated.

This causes rich to read richer and lean to read leaner, the further we move from lambda 1.0 in either direction the worse the deviation becomes.

Here's real example:
Gauge reads 0.88 and we have 7PSI exhaust pressure

0.88 – ((0.88-1)/33.3)*7 = 0.91

The real lambda is 0.91 but the gauge reads 0.88 you are actually leaner than the gauge is telling you! You may be tempted to lean the fuel based on gauge reading but this will result in leaner mixture than desired and can have damaging results!

So, how much back pressure do you have in your exhaust?
A stock 3.2L with SSIs can have 5PSI pressure at WOT in the 5000-6500RPM range! Your AFRs will be leaner than the gauge is telling you!

The best WBO2 controller manufactures (AEM is one) know this and offer Exhaust pressure sensors that feedback pressure to the WBO2 controller so it can correct for pressure. But most cheaper sensor manufactures won't tell you this.

In summary: be aware of this limitation as I've seen it come up with our 3.2L cars often. Don't put all your hopes on WBO2 readings alone!

__________________
Sal
1984 911 Carrera Cab M491 (Factory Wide Body)
1975 911S Targa (SOLD)
1964 356SC (SOLD)
1987 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible

Last edited by scarceller; 03-06-2015 at 12:34 PM..
Old 03-06-2015, 12:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
83 911 Production Cab #10
 
JJ 911SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,134
Garage
Sal,

Quite interesting. I went to their website but it seem to be related to Turbo user, but I may have miss it the NA function.

Exhaust Back Pressure Install Kit - 4 Channel Wideband
__________________
Who Will Live... Will See

83 911 Production Cab #10, Slightly Modified: Unslanted, 3.2, PMO EFI, TECgt, CE 911 CAM Sync / Pulley / Wires, SSI, Dansk Sport 2/2, 17" Euromeister, CKO GT3 Seats, Going SOK Super Charger
Old 03-06-2015, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
El Duderino
 
tirwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Forgotten Coast
Posts: 5,843
Garage
So does the exhaust pressure change depending on how how far "down the line" the WBO2 sensor is? Meaning if it was placed closer to the exhaust tip would it lessen the chance of deviation?
__________________
There are those who call me... Tim
'83 911 SC 3.0 coupe (NA)

You can't buy happiness, but you can buy car parts which is kind of the same thing.
Old 03-06-2015, 02:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
scarceller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern MA
Posts: 3,972
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by tirwin View Post
So does the exhaust pressure change depending on how how far "down the line" the WBO2 sensor is? Meaning if it was placed closer to the exhaust tip would it lessen the chance of deviation?
Correct, if possible weld the bung into the center of the muffler as back pressure will be less at that location than at the collector for cyl 1-3 plus side for in the muffler is it also sees mixture combined from all cyls 1-6! This is a issue that is not that well understood and not knowing about it can be dangerous. Many turbo folks know not to place WBO2 sensors in front of the turbo for this very reason.

Most tuners also place the dyno sensor at the tail pipe for this reason as well. And the better tuners actually monitor exhaust pressure!
__________________
Sal
1984 911 Carrera Cab M491 (Factory Wide Body)
1975 911S Targa (SOLD)
1964 356SC (SOLD)
1987 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible

Last edited by scarceller; 03-08-2015 at 12:50 PM..
Old 03-08-2015, 12:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered
 
scarceller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern MA
Posts: 3,972
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ 911SC View Post
Sal,

Quite interesting. I went to their website but it seem to be related to Turbo user, but I may have miss it the NA function.

Exhaust Back Pressure Install Kit - 4 Channel Wideband
Not just a turbo issue, it comes up more often in turbo exhaust but this issue can be a problem in any exhaust that has back pressure.

__________________
Sal
1984 911 Carrera Cab M491 (Factory Wide Body)
1975 911S Targa (SOLD)
1964 356SC (SOLD)
1987 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible
Old 03-08-2015, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:04 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.