Help. Nothing from Starter. No noise at all.

[Speed Buggy]

Posted in engine rebuilding forum as well.
I put a new hi torque starter in during my engine rebuild. I have the battery and alternator wire to the large post, the two yellow wires to a piggyback spade connector to the single spade connector. 12+ volts to the terminal. ~4+ volts to the other terminal. No sound at all when ignition to start. Could it be the ignition switch?
1981 SC 3.0

[MetalDoc]

Is your ground strap connected?

[Speed Buggy]

Yes. A new ground strap and I took it off and cleaned the body under it.

[Speed Buggy]

Thanks. Trying to get the ignition switch out now. What a PITB. Hmmmm.

[Targalid]

Place a good known battery on the floor, next to the starter. Run jumper cables directly to the starter and see if it works. If it does, you know you have a wiring problem elsewhere. If it does not work, you have a bad starter.

[Speed Buggy]

So - from nothing to starter won't stop turning over even with key removed. Now what?
I tightened the negative battery post and tried the key again and it fired (fuel pump relay removed), but wouldn't stop until I removed the two wires from the solonoid. I've seen this somewhere before but can't find the post...I searched using Google but couldn't find the thread. Help please. Thanks.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Speed Buggy

So - from nothing to starter won't stop turning over even with key removed. Now what?
I tightened the negative battery post and tried the key again and it fired (fuel pump relay removed), but wouldn't stop until I removed the two wires from the solonoid. I've seen this somewhere before but can't find the post...I searched using Google but couldn't find the thread. Help please. Thanks.

Do you still feel the spring resistance on the key when you switch to the "start" position?

You mentioned trying to get the switch out. Have you done that?

What are the voltage readings at the yellow wires that you removed from the solenoid--with the key off, on, and at "start."

[Speed Buggy]

I didn't get the switch out. I tightened the neg battery clamp and thought I'd try it again. What the heck...and then...Well it started (fuel pump relay out) to turn but I had to climb under the car to remove the solenoid wires. The key does spring back from crank position.

I found the yellow without the blue stripe wire insulation melted near the starter spade connector. Maybe the wire is grounding out somewhere. Grrrr

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Speed Buggy

I didn't get the switch out. I tightened the neg battery clamp and thought I'd try it again. What the heck...and then...Well it started (fuel pump relay out) to turn but I had to climb under the car to remove the solenoid wires. The key does spring back from crank position.

I found the yellow without the blue stripe wire insulation melted near the starter spade connector. Maybe the wire is grounding out somewhere. Grrrr

The solid yellow wire feeds power to the solenoid from the ignition switch. It also sends power to the fuel pump relay (terminal 87) when the starter is cranking. If your system is working correctly, as soon as you release the key from the start position, power would stop flowing to the solenoid. The only thing I can surmise from the worn insulation is that the bare wire touched a hot lead, not a ground, feeding power from another source to the solenoid. Is the bare spot anywhere close to the lug connection for the battery?

Aside from the above, I'm suspecting he solenoid itself. When the solenoid is powered via the yellow wire, it moves a plunger inside that moves a lever that pushes the drive gear into the flywheel. At the same time, the plunger has a contact which connects the battery connection on the solenoid to the starter motor, causing the motor to turn and the flywheel to rotate. If the solenoid plunger gets stuck in the active position or there is a wiring fault, the contact inside may remain in position and the starter continues to crank. The solenoid draws about 50 amps so a faulty coil could draw enough to melt insulation from the wiring.

One more question. When your starter didn't stop, was the engine still tuning over or was the starter motor just whirring?

[timmy2]

Yellow with blue marked wire runs as follows:

From starter solenoid to Cold Start Injector. From the Timer Junior terminal at the Injector it changes to yellow only and runs with a red black directly to the Thermo Switch on the chain case.

It only receives 12 volts through the starter via the internal contact that picks up when the large yellow wire is energized.

1. Remove yellow/blue and the red/black wire at the Thermo Switch and test it for a ground to the chassis.
2. remove large yellow wire and unplug the 14 pin connector at the fuse panel and test it to Ground.
3. Test the 2 terminals on the starter to ground.
4. Test Pin 1 (Male pin on panel) of the 14 pin connector to ground. (Check for 12vdc to ground first)
5. Disconnect single yellow wire connector under dash on trunk side coming from the ignition switch's 6 pin through dash connector. Test it to ground and for DC as above. (Both sides of connector)
6. Lastly, check wiring at ignition switch.

These tests will allow you to isolate and test the entire start circuit from the back to the front of the car.

Feel free to PM me or email me your phone number and a time to call and I can walk you through it.

[Speed Buggy]

Thanks gents. I am going to a family get together now and I shant bother you tomorrow on the holiday. I'll follow your test instructions tomorrow and report back on Tuesday . As others have said, this community is the best.

L.J. The engine was turning over when the starter was running. I'll take a pic of where the wire is compromised today and post it.

Happy Memorial Day to the vets and their families.

[Speed Buggy]

So I found part of the starter problem. The starter ignition wire and the cold start valve wire were piggybacked together on a twin spade connector like had been outlined in several hi torque starter threads I read. The cold start valve wire insulation melted. I took the cold start valve wire and the piggyback spade connector off the starter and just connected the ignition wire. Success. Starter starts and stops with key. I still don’t know why the CSV wire melted. I’m going to go over all the electrical and vacuum connections to make sure they are all in the correct positions. Then run through the CIS for Dummies tutorial / book to get the engine to fire. It turns over and backfires but will not catch.

As Arnold said, “Eye’ll be bach”

[Flat6pac]

Check that the distributor set 180 out.
Bruce

[Speed Buggy]

I checked the distributor and with #1 near TDC, and the crank at Z1, this is what I have. Is my dizzy off by one (or more) tooth (teeth)?

[boyt911sc]

Speed,

The position of the rotor looks good to me. And your adjusting/locking bolt has room for adjustment both ways. At this position, it should not cause you problem to get the motor to start and run. There are other culprit/s to check. Keep us posted.

Tony

[timmy2]

Leading edge of rotor should be lined up with Mark on dizzy.
If it is more than 1/2 way past you are likely out a tooth.
Can't really see the position of the rotor in relation to the mark.
Tony posted a great picture recently, maybe he will post it again for you.

[Speed Buggy]

Hi Dennis, I'm using one of your harnesses. Sorry I messed it up. So I got a twin spade connector for my new hi torque starter to connect both female spade cons to the single male on the solonoid. I fried the insulation on the CSV wire. What could I have done wrong? Might I have the CSV and the WUR connectors flipped? Others that did this layout didn't seem to have this problem. hmmmm.

[Speed Buggy]

Tony, tomorrow I'll do the fuel system checks. I got the stuff for the fuel pump bypass switch today. I'll post the results tomorrow eve hopefully.
I'm also still chasing unconnected holes and hoses grrr.

[timmy2]

You may have swapped the CSV and the air metering switch blue and green connectors. That would explain a lot.
Blue is universal for cold, that is why the cold start connector is blue.
Email me with your phone number and we can figure it out.

If you want to pull the harness with a partial drop and send it to me, I'll fix it for you for my cost for any parts and return shipping.

Sent you an email through Pelican with my number, give me a call tonight if you have time.