How To Price This Engine?

[rennch]

Hi all,

I'm very seriously considering a 3.6 upgrade, and have a couple good engines to buy. I've just spent $8000 in October doing a full top end refresh of my RoW 3.0 motor, including brand new PMO's, every seal (except the one behind the pulley...a mistake I'll correct next time it's out) and switch replaced, new oil return tubes, etc.. It still has the stock cams, but I've had the distributor recurved for the PMO's and it runs like a champ. Leakdown numbers were great, and it has about 40k on it since it was rebuilt by Dick Evelrude and sold to me by KNIGHTRACE on this forum. It has a custom exhaust and is a bolt in swap for anyone that wants a great running and looking vintage engine. Here are some pics...I'd love for people to weigh in on if I should keep it as is, split out the PMO's (I have a few buyers) and make it CIS again, or whatever. How much is it worth?

Here are some photos of the After, before, and during.

[rennch]

Note: I do NOT have rebuild documentation. But all receipts and service records since I've owned it, and William Knight's (KNIGHTRACE) reputation for the motor.

[rennch]

Just to define the pictures...everything longblock on out is either brand new or powder coated, refurbished, including the valve covers.

[bourgeois911]

Damn, that's pretty. No idea what a reasonable price may be but I'm sure it should be more than I'm ready to spend.

[Ayles]

Subbed! I have an engine Dick built that hasn't seen any action since he tuned it on his dyno. Hoping to fire it up for the first time next month.

[Wayne 962]

You might be disappointed if you simply put in a standard fuel-injected 3.6 engine. The softer cams on the 3.6 combined with the fuel injection may have a different feel than the snappiness of a well-built high-compression 3.0. I don't see any specs on your engine here, but I'm assuming it's got some high lift cams to accompany those PMO carbs. With really good cams, you will squeeze a bunch more power and get closer to a "soft cam hobbled" 3.6. Having said that, the best approach is a 3.6 rebuilt with PMOs and a hot cam, but not too many people do that.

When we did the "RS Shootout" article with Grassroots Motorsports quite a few years ago, it was surprising how close in performance all of these cars seemed. We had everything from a 2.4S, to an original RS 2.7, to my high-compression 3.0 (similar to yours), to a 3.6 RSR clone (which I now own). Down the back straight, all in a line, none of us pulled away from each other (it was quite a neat sight to see). You can bet we all floored it too. The owner of the RSR was irritated so he decided to pull the engine and build a high compression 4-liter engine. Money ran out and the engine was completed but sold to someone else.

My point is that your dollar-per-horsepower feel may be diminished as you move from a high compression 3.0 to a 3.6 fuel injected engine.

Links:

Photos From Yesterday's RS Shootout!!!

Pelican Parts Photos - Pelican Parts / Grassroots Motorsports Porsche 911 RS Shootout - 2007

-Wayne

[rennch]

Wayne, my 3.0 is stock aside from the PMO's. I suspect it's around 180-200 hp. Aren't a few 3.6's in the 300 hp range with a chip and exhaust?


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[Alan Lindquist]

Michael,
I've got your CIS - complete. If you need it back to part out the carbs (not suggesting that you should) let me know and I'll sell it back to you for the same price.

If not, I'm going to list it on Ebay.

I like your motor. Horsepower is one way to go faster, but there are other ways that may cost less. I think your car is pretty light, but there may be some weight to get rid of.

What about going for the cams to match the PMOs?

Alan

[Matt Monson]

Keep the engine. Spend the money on your gearbox.

[rennch]

I think I may be able to do the swap without a lot of money out of my pocket, Alan.

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by emptyo

Wayne, my 3.0 is stock aside from the PMO's. I suspect it's around 180-200 hp. Aren't a few 3.6's in the 300 hp range with a chip and exhaust?

Okay, then ignore what I said, it has stock cams in it. Putting PMOs on a stock motor like that without performing other upgrades won't really buy you any significant additional performance...

-Wayne

[Farrell]

save the PMOs for a 3.6 swap? or do you need 50's?

[jpnovak]

Personally, I think you will be disappointed in the driving character of the 3.6 compared to your current setup.

If it were me...

spend money on maximizing a cam for that piston. I built a motor with a hybrid 964/993SS grind on a different lobe center that would clear the late CIS pistons. Combined with EFI (in this case) the car was completely transformed. You would see similar results with the PMOs.

Do you still have the early 901 transmission? This already has a great gear stack. If not, put the 901 (0r type 911) back in the car.

The cams and gearbox can be done for less money than you will spend on the conversion parts for the 3.6.

Then spend the remaining money on track days until you can not go any faster.

3.6 engines sound nice on paper but you have to consider your car as a whole. The low rpm torque does not fit the character of a what should be a high-revving, wide body early car.

my $0.02.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

Personally, I think you will be disappointed in the driving character of the 3.6 compared to your current setup.
3.6 engines sound nice on paper but you have to consider your car as a whole. The low rpm torque does not fit the character of a what should be a high-revving, wide body early car.

my $0.02.

Ask Jack Olsen how he feels about his "low RPM torque" STOCK 3.6 in his street/racecar! Also Bill Verberg about his several 3.6 iterations in early cars.
I've had a 3.6 in my '80SC for 23yrs after having had several highly modified,built up, high revving motors in early '70s 911s. I like the 3.6 solution WAY more than than any of my earlier cars. The civility, reliability and modernization of the stock 3.6 motor vs a modified higher stressed old motor, trumps the " character of a what should be a high-revving, wide body early car" every time!
Just my $.02 also.

[rennch]

Yea, the appeal of reliable extra 100hp is pretty strong, I have to say. I haven't made final decisions yet...

That said, how much is this engine worth? No one has offered me any kind of number yet.

[toddu]

Unfortunately, most projects are cents on the dollar. I'm guessing (very much guessing) $12k'ish.

Todd

(could be way off, but should at least get the conversation started)

[toddu]

Actually, see it's mostly stock other than PMOs. Guess I would lower my evaluation a fair bit.

Todd

[Farrell]

I'd say it's worth ~$10k

[78-911SC]

Never saw what year it was. Or are all 3.0 ROW the same? I know the 78 and 79 here are different than the other years.

[Farrell]

I think this one is 80-83