I think I have a big corrosion problem (68 911T)

[Mike_72]

So I got one heck of a nasty surprise yesterday when I lifted the drivers side carpet on my car. Some serious floor pan corrosion, which actually extends up beyond the floor pan into the structure that the seat bolts to on the outboard side of the car. I am no body expert but this doesn't look good at all. Hoping some of you more experience Porsche experts can chime in on the options going forward. Here are some pictures of the area, including some picture of the torsion bar area and rockers on the same side.

[jpnovak]

yes, You have rust. Only way to correctly fix is to cut out the bad and weld in some new metal. Find a competent shop in your area who understands how these cars are assembled and get an opinion. Its hard to tell exactly how bad it is from dark pictures.

Next step here is to wire brush back all of the rust and scale, clean thoroughly and then evaluate if the structural sections of the car are rusted enough to prevent driving the car. It looks like you have some leaky seals and water has pooled in the bottom of the floors. It also looks like the water has seeped into the inner rocker area rusting out the seam between the floor and longitudinals. This makes me wonder what the inner rocker panel looks like next to the seam. Unfortunately, it's almost always worse on the inside compared to the outside.

Sorry.

The good news is that these cars are relatively easy to fix. Panels are easily available.

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

yes, You have rust. Only way to correctly fix is to cut out the bad and weld in some new metal. Find a competent shop in your area who understands how these cars are assembled and get an opinion. Its hard to tell exactly how bad it is from dark pictures.

Next step here is to wire brush back all of the rust and scale, clean thoroughly and then evaluate if the structural sections of the car are rusted enough to prevent driving the car. It looks like you have some leaky seals and water has pooled in the bottom of the floors. It also looks like the water has seeped into the inner rocker area rusting out the seam between the floor and longitudinals. This makes me wonder what the inner rocker panel looks like next to the seam. Unfortunately, it's almost always worse on the inside compared to the outside.

Sorry.

The good news is that these cars are relatively easy to fix. Panels are easily available.

Even with my limited knowledge I tend to agree with you on the fact that water pooled inside the car, which is probably responsible for the musty odor in the car as well. I guess I need to determine the full extent of the damage and then decide if it makes financial sense to repair it. The car doesn't have the original motor so it's value will always be limited by that.

[javadog]

If water got into the car, you likely have issues at either the windshield or rear window. Pull the glass and have a look. If you had a leak at the rear window, pull the carpeting, insulation, rear upholstery and rear seats out.

JR

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by javadog

If water got into the car, you likely have issues at either the windshield or rear window. Pull the glass and have a look. If you had a leak at the rear window, pull the carpeting, insulation, rear upholstery and rear seats out.

JR

I will probably remove the remaining carpet this afternoon as well as the rear seats to have a look at what surprises may be under there. Regarding the torsion bar area, it looks like water may have made its way inside that area and worked its way out through the seam. If that is the case how do I assess the damage it has cause inside where I can't easily look?

[javadog]

If it has gotten that far, it needs to go to a shop for repair. Only way to check the torsion bar tube is to pull the bars out.

JR

[Mike_72]

I am definitely nervous to continue removing the carpet and carrying out further inspection as I'm sure I have seen the worst of it yet!!

[Tippy]

2 methods to combat the rust you have now, would be, Ospho rust killer followed by Corrosion X until you can properly remove the material. This will buy you some time. Now, not knowing how deep the rust has migrated, this might not be very effective, but it surely won't hurt.

[june82000]

I wish I had your rust problems...

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by june82000

I wish I had your rust problems...

Meaning they aren't that bad?? Or you own a body shop and wish to make a killing from me??

[Matt Monson]

Posted a picture of the kidney bowl on your RL thread.

Regards,

Matt aka GTgears

[june82000]

Originally Posted by Mike_72

Meaning they aren't that bad?? Or you own a body shop and wish to make a killing from me??

Meaning they aren't that bad - mine is a lot worse.

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by june82000

Meaning they aren't that bad - mine is a lot worse.

Well as I dig deeper I may find a lot more. This car was restored back in the 80s so who knows what could be covered up by bondo, sealant and paint.

[Fixer]

Mike, if you're near Philadelphia I can help you.

[Jose_JGC]

My 1970 911T was not as rusted as yours, yet I had the floor, front panel and inner and outer rocker panels replaced at a Porsche specialized shop and that cost me about 9.000 Euros labor and parts.
If I were you, I would remove the interior and the glasses and take it to a specialized shop to get a quotation for body repair and paint. If your car is a matching numbers then it is certainly worth restoring.
Jose

[wayner]

why windshield trim should be a regular maintenance item.html

[reachme]

Funny this came up.

There is an article in Total 911 I just read (issue 131-no affiliation) that does a good quickie version on how to assess rust on an early 70's 911 for a novice. It divides rust into 3 stages which is kind of arbitrary but also the truth about "restorations" and how late 80's restorations on early 70's 911 [when first wave of resto was needed].
At that time it didn't pay to do it right so you are not only assessing visible rust today but you have to judge the first "restoration" to see how well it was truly done. Almost always to make it look good for another 10 years by hiding the -not yet dangerous- rust slowly eating away. Would you do a frame off restoration on an '02 Carrera today?

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by pmax

So, who sold this to you ?

I bought the car of someone who has owned the car since 1996 but hasn't driven or touched the car in 6 years. I got it for a good price because of all the unknowns given the storage period. It had been stored indoors under a cover so I took my chances. The owner before him had "restored" the car at some point in the mid to late 80's. The car has a 2.4 from a 72 so I am not looking for a concourse restoration, just a nice driver for weekends.

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by reachme

Funny this came up.

There is an article in Total 911 I just read (issue 131-no affiliation) that does a good quickie version on how to assess rust on an early 70's 911 for a novice. It divides rust into 3 stages which is kind of arbitrary but also the truth about "restorations" and how late 80's restorations on early 70's 911 [when first wave of resto was needed].
At that time it didn't pay to do it right so you are not only assessing visible rust today but you have to judge the first "restoration" to see how well it was truly done. Almost always to make it look good for another 10 years by hiding the -not yet dangerous- rust slowly eating away. Would you do a frame off restoration on an '02 Carrera today?

Makes sense that you wouldn't have any reason to do a perfect restoration on the car at that time, and this one is probably good proof of that. Here is a picture of me giving it a wash after getting it home. To the untrained eye it looks like a pretty clean car. Even had me fooled at the point of this picture. Although I was aware of potential water ingress as you can see I have some tape on the sunroof and around the top of the door.

[Mike_72]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Posted a picture of the kidney bowl on your RL thread.

Regards,

Matt aka GTgears

Back to the topic at hand, here are some pictures from this afternoon.

I was happy to see that after lifting the passenger side carpet and padding it wasn't nearly as bad as the drivers side.



So back to the drivers side I go to start poking around a little more





Here is a shot looking forward in the left rear wheel well, as you can see there has been some sloppy welding in there.



And the same shot but on the passenger side.



Here is a shot of the right side rocker, not as bad as the left but far from perfect.



And finally what i thought was bondo around the torque tube area turns out to be some type of rubberized coating. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing.