Sal Carceller's chip and injector system for 3.2
 

Hi guys,
I have started the process of installing Sal's chip and injector kit.
See his post for details:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/888986-new-product-performance-chip-matched-injectors-3-2l-carrera.html

My car is a rebuilt 3.2 with 964 cams, 10.3 JE pistols, SSI's, a Dansk sport muffler and it came with a Steve Wong chip. The injectors and AFM have been rebuilt as well. The car drives reasonably well, but has some part throttle drivability issues.

The reason I say process is because Sal provides incredible service. I began by asking a few questions, exchanging some PM's and then we spoke on the phone. Sal is obviously an enthusiast in every sense of the word. I learned a great deal from our discussions and I ended up sending him my DME (fuel injection brain). He begins by analyzing my DME and bringing it up to spec of the 1989 model, the best factory chip for the 3.2. That involves any repairs, and installing a 28 pin chip socket and the 28 pin 89 factory chip. He advised installing a wide band O2 sensor so we can tune the car. I bought the AEM model and will be putting it in soon. Interestingly, I found that my DME was taken apart and put into a BMW case. Sal provided a 911 case and repaired a few damaged components on my unit. He had me check my fuel pressure and TPS function.
I have to tell you that Sal is an incredible resource for the 911 crowd. His knowledge and experience is exceptional, and his enthusiasm and commitment to service are also second to none. I will post pictures as I go through the install process, but I feel like I am in the hands of a real expert.
Thanks for reading,
Dave

Dave,

I'll be following your progress. I also have an 84. The only "performance upgrade" is a backdated exhaust installed by the PO. I have been thinking about getting a SW chip for it and I'll be curious to hear what you think of this more expensive system and if you find it worthwhile.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I had a Steve Wong chip on my car. It works fine. It came with the car. I have a receipt for it and it costs $675. It is custom designed for my car's configuration.
Sal's system is $800. It comes with a custom designed chip and 6 modern fuel injectors. To me that sounds like a bargain.
Only time will tell, but I am looking forward to testing his work.
Thanks,
Dave

I too have taken the plunge, but have gone with Sal's full system which includes MAF, replacement DME with custom chip, 6 injectors and K&N style air filter. Like Dave, the experience of dealing with Sal is a fantastic learning experience. He starts out by getting you to perform a checklist of validating the existing components are in good working order, and then getting a good baseline with the WBO2 sensor before begin the install of new components. I am currently installing the AEM WBO2 unit, and expect to have my package from Sal within the next week. I will keep everyone updated on my progress, and provide my assessment as to the results of this package.

Regards,
David

I am not even a customer and he has helped me a ton. I might just be before long. The chip/injectors does seem like a steal, but the MAF seems like the total package. Decisions, decisions.

Sub'ed. Part of my winter project!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dave, I suggest you post your full engine specs so others know.

x2 this looks like a much more complete package than the SW chip.
nothing against the SW chip, i have one currently, but this certainly looks worthwhile.

Terrific thread.

My car is a rebuilt 3.2 with 964 cams, 10.3 JE pistons, SSI's, a Dansk sport muffler, and it came with a Steve Wong chip. My injectors and AFM were recently rebuilt. The car runs pretty well but has some part throttle drivability issues.
Thanks
Dave

What intrigues me on this setup is precision. The maf is a more precise air metering device, and the modern style injectors will have a more ideal spray pattern, and will be fresh. Thus, it will be easier to get ideal afr's, and keep them ideal.

As mich as i have convinced myself that i did not need it in the past, such precision i feel will benefit from extrude honing the intakes to minimize flow variability. With lower intake needs it is less of an issue, but I am shooting for 275hp, and i think the benefits will be there as the limits of the system are pushed.

My MAF air filters are S&B filters with power stack, they are very different than a K&N in design and quality. And they are far cheaper than K&N. They are custom matched to the MAF and have been flow benched as a single unit with MAF and Filter working together. Changing a filter alters air flow results on the flow bench, this system was designed correctly, it was not just thrown together from a bunch of parts. I took great care in picking the components for both the air and fuel models. I also only use fully speced injectors that come with complete specs. Here's an example of a complete injector spec, all this data goes into the program code!
https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/parts/ics/m-9593-LU34A.pdf
This is NOT the injector in my normal kits, but it is a injector I've used. It gives you a good idea of what injector data is and how much data goes into modeling just an injector!

Sal is Great!
 

My '87 died last fall and Sal helped me diagnose a bad DME. I sent it off to him and he discovered a number of cracked solder points and even a bad board. I believe he rebuild my DME using another board and upgraded the chip to a 28 pin and '89 parameters. The car has run flawlessly ever since.

Hi Peter,

I do remember you, glad it's running well!

Sal,

My '77 3.2 resto-mod should be taking on its power plant sometime this winter. Your set-up is on the list of goodies (budget allowing). Let me know if you want to get out of the cold and come to the Carolinas for a couple days. You can make it a "business trip". : )

I've installed a Steve Wong chip and a K&N filter (both easy even for me), but how difficult is it to install the new fuel injectors?

My next performance upgrade on schedule is actually 3.4 pistons and a new exhaust (not to be done by me). Would the new pistons make it incompatible with your system, Sal?

It's not that difficult to install injectors. I have a document that explains howto install them, I change 6 injectors in about 30 minutes or less.

If you up displacement to 3.4L you really need my MAF, here's 2 customers with 3.4L and my MAF, one single plug the other twin plug.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/871561-1985-3-4-build-using-maf-279-56-hp-237-63-rwhp.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/851912-my-87-3-4-maf-project.html

The pooder build is a single plug 3.4L with fantastic results for the money.
The twin plug did very well with tons of low end torque, this one is getting some wild cams this Winter using my MAF.
Both those engines are not customer DIY projects, these were both done by very reputable engine builders and they worked closely with me to install and tune the MAF.

You can also keep the AFM with the 3.4L but it starts to become an issue at very high rpms.

Hi guys,
I received my refurbished DME from Sal today. My old one was in a BMW case, and had a few missing parts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1446930876.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1446930912.jpg

He installs a 28 pin chip socket, and a factory 89 chip. I reset my idle speed to 880 RPM, and it is now very smooth, with just the DME changes so far. I couldn't resist taking it for a quick spin, and I noticed the parking lot jerk is completely gone. It was there before with the old DME configuration including the SW chip.
My next jobs are to finish my fuel pressure testing, then install the WB O2 sensor and do some AFR testing. I think I can get that done on Monday or so.
Thanks for watching.
Dave

Someone really messed with that DME, they put the boards into a BMW case (not sure why?) and then they left off the 4 large aluminum standoffs and the 4 large screws that hold the lower board to the lower tin. This was not a good idea as those 4 screws and the standoffs are part of the heat sink for the large transistors! I had to replace the case and a few screws and standoffs but it's now a 89 spec DME! Other than that it was in decent shape with no visible solder issues on this DME. I still remove and re-solder the typical problematic areas.

Enjoy.

Hi guys,
I have out of town visitors this weekend, but they went out for a while, so I took the time to begin the install of my AEM WBO2 system. I began by installing the sensor itself. My SSI's were already provided with a sensor port of the DS pipe. The somewhat challenging task was pulling the wires from inside the cabin to the area below the engine. As per Sal's suggestion, I used the main wiring harness grommet and gradually stretched it enough that I could pass the small connector at the gauge end of the cable. So the cable is connected and installed at the engine end, and I just need to do the cleaner part of installing the gauge itself in the center console.
I'm back to cooking for company, but hope to get some AFR data tomorrow when I finish the install.
Thanks,
Dave

Is that an image of the "refurbished DME" with a tie-wrap holding it together or just
a generic image? Hopefully, the circuit boards inside look a lot better.

Just a guess - possibly a security seal so it can be determined if it was opened back up?

I wondered about the zip tie also. The actual closure tabs were left open, and the zip tie allows easy chip exchange until we get the system dialed in. All the tabs are perfect. Sal went through the interior circuits himself, and says all is spec, including re-soldering potential problem areas and a 28 pin socket upgrade, and factory 89 chip. However we fully plan to open it back up to install Sal's custom chip to go with his new fuel injectors.
Thanks,
Dave

Dave, Exactly correct! The reason I zip tie the DME is so that we can quickly change chips during the tuning process. The zip tie holds the cover in place just fine, it risks nothing having it zip tied other than looks. You can't keep bending the tabs, after about the 3 rd time you bend them you will break them.

LOL! I have no idea how many times my DME has been apart, but I do know that it only has 2 tabs left. All rest have broken off.

Ah smart. Yeah mine is missing a few and you can see the metal hairline fracturing on the remaining.

The tie wrap is such that it can be removed without cutting it. The other way to do this same idea nicely is with a velcro strap available at many hobby shops, totally reusable and easy to use.

Good morning Sal. Do you have a cone type air filter for the AFM, similar to the one on your MAF system?
Thanks,
Dave

You can easily use a S&B filter on the AFM but you need to get a decent adapter for the AFM. The adapter needs to transition cleanly and smooth into the square input of the AFM. Something like this:
Afm Air Filter Adapter Fit BMW E30 E36 318i Golf MK3 GTI Mazda MX5 Toyota | eBay
I'm just showing you this listing as an idea, I'm not sure if that adapter has correct dimensions? You need to measure the factory AFM and find an adapter like this.

Then you just size the S&B filter from here:
Round with Flange - Universal Filters - Products
And use this guide to size it:
Round with Flange: Filter Diagram

Once you have the adapter and the OD of the round inlet I can assist you with picking a filter.

Hi guys,
I got the WB O2 system installed. Works like a charm. Pretty tedious getting it all neat. For Sal's AFR tests (with no NBO2 sensor signal to DME, open loop):

1. First I set my idle speed with a digital timing light for RPM to 880 with jumper in place. Settled down to a pretty good idle. It does surge by 30 or 40 RPM's though. Idle AFR oscillates between 13.6 and 14.2, with adjustment went to 14.0 to 14.2.

2. Driving the car the AFR's behaved exactly as you described at 3-4000RPM's in 3rd gear. Again 14.2 to 14.6

3. On throttle tip in the AFR drops to 12.6 to 13.0, momentarily, then returns to the 13.8 to 14.0 range.

4. At WOT again the AFR's drop to 12.4

I noticed that if I let off throttle suddenly the AFR goes into the 15-16's momentarily, then returns to 14.0 This stopped with the idle switch disconnected, but the idle went to 1800 RPM. With the idle switch reconnected the car idled in the high 13's until I revved it a little then it settled back to 14.2.

I will say there is considerable oscillation about some of these values, in the course of driving.

Just for the fun of it, I connected the white wire (simulated NB O2 signal)from the AFR gauge to the O2 sensor lead on the engine harness, and the AFR went to 16-17 and the car stumbled until I quickly disconnected the white wire.

The fuel pressure tests were fine: 38 PSI fuel pump on, 31 PSI engine running, 38 PSI with vacuum hose disconnected fro FPR.

The car drives quite well. No jerking. Good throttle response, similar to old DME configuration. I'm pretty happy where it stands. I await comments.
Thanks,
Dave

Dave,

Results are as expected.

Few things to note.
- AEM gauge white wire needs to be setup for NBO2 output, read the docs. The gauge has a switch you need to set to position #4 to simulate a NBO2 signal. The gauge is not setup by default for this.

- On decel the DME cuts the injectors till the RPM drops to about 1200RPMs then once below 1200 injectors come back on. This is why the gauge reads lean on decel fuel cut.

Other than that I think you are properly setup, drive it a bit so you know how the gauge behaves under different driving conditions.

Sal is a GREAT guy. He has helped me without asking anything in return when I was having some issues. I now have the engine sorted out with a WB02 installed. Once I've taken the time to download the android dyno app that Sal also did a nice write up on, I'm going to make a few runs then I'll be sending the DME in for Sal to work his wonders on.

Hi guys,
I fixed the NB O2 simulated signal. It runs fine but i would have to reset the idle speed, and since we plan to run open loop with the new injectors, I don't plan to do that.
The new injectors and chip are the next step. Sal want to bring the car up to snuff first. He has made great progress in drivability with the factory 89 chip over the previous SW chip. He had me order a small chip burner and some EPROM chips. He will soon send me his custom chip and injectors, then any tweaking can be done by emailing files for revised chips until we get it as good as possible.
I am sending him some money for the chip and injectors and we will follow through his protocol.
Thanks,
Dave

Hello.
Just a quick update.
I have been trying to get my chip burner and chips to work.

5pcs ATMEL AT28C64B 15PU AT28C64B 28C64 EEPROM Memory DIP 28 IC Used | eBay

USB TL866CS Universal EPROM EEPROM Flash Programmer Minipro BIOS AVR Al Pic SP | eBay

I've never touched or seen a chip in my life. I think I have made every mistake, bending pins, not pushing in far enough, but I have not yet had one of my burned chips successfully fire my engine. Sal's burned 89 stock chip works great but none of mine. Sal thinks it may be copy protection problem. I've sent him my burnier and chips to see if he can sort it out.
He has my injectors in stock and we should be working on the install in the next week or so.
Thanks for watching,
Dave

Zip tie or velcro for the dme is brilliant. I started with one broken tab, and each time i have opened it, a tab brakes. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best ones.

I am jumping on the MAF bandwagon this winter. I just need to get off my butt and send out my DME to Sal.

Hey John,
You won't be sorry to deal with Sal
Good luck,
Dave

Here's an update.
Sal checked my chip burner, and the chips it burned were OK when he used his chips, and NG when he used my refurbished, used ,cheap Chinese chips. Who would have guessed. He thinks they had some copy protection problem, even though they were wiped. He sent me a few of his chips.
BUT more important, he has shipped me my injectors and his chip which will control them. He has a pretty detailed protocol planned for the install, which I will document when they arrive. Hopefully, more news this weekend.
Thanks,
Dave

OK guys, I got the chip and injectors today. Sal sent me some good chips, and I was able to burn a functioning chip that started and ran my car. This is important because based on AFR data at different speeds and loads, Sal can modify the chip's BIN file and send me a new file that I can burn onto a chip. That way he can fine tune the system by email. That's pretty neat.
Anyway, tomorrow I will try to install the new injectors and the new chip. Assuming no leaks or other problems I will try to get the car started and running. Unfortunately I am scheduled to get 6" of snow tonight, so I will be inside for a while. We'll see how far I get in the next few days.
I will post pics of the process as I go.
Dave

The chip burning remotly was one feature that sold me (one of many). No mailing my chip across north america (and across border) and back to get a new tune. Sure I need to send my dme off, but that is a one time thing. Proper chip tunig takes a few tries to optomize, and things will be quicker if you start swapping components in the future (which i may do).

I have been out of town for a while and just now saw this thread and I wanted to add my comments on Sal. My '87 3.4 conversion was the first remote install of Sal's MAF, and was performed by my engine builder Greg Johnson at Eurosports Ltd in Denver. The details are in the thread referenced by Sal in this thread (My 3.4 MAF project). I was thoroughly impressed with Sal, my mechanic who worked with Grady Clay for years was very impressed, the car is perfect - but I am unhappy because I miss talking to Sal on a regular basis. Sometimes I find myself hoping that something will go wrong so I will have a reason to call. Alas, the car runs flawlessly and I have but 8000 miles on it since March when the rebuild was completed. I have dealt with both Sal and Steve Wong, and in my personal experience there is no comparison. Sal is a true innovator and a great guy.