Starter Motor Problem

[Fishcop]

Greetings Gurus

I'm having trouble with my starter when the car is hot. I just get a clicking noise from the starter (solenoid?), but no cranking. Give the car an hour to cool down and problem solved. I figure I can't be Robinson Crusoe, so does anyone have some advice or hints to alleviate the problem?

BTW it is freshly rebuilt starter, and yes I'm pulling it out and giving it back to the auto sparkie, but the old one did this from time to time also. I just thought there might be some shielding/cooling ideas amongst you.

Cheers

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John Forcier
69 911T

[davis911s]

Just check all connections, and also do a load test on the battery to ensure that it isn't the problem. Just bring the car to a good battery shop and they can check it, usually for free. Good to eliminate it as a cause too.

Shawn

[cmonref]

Check the ground strap between the body and the front of the transmission. Remove and clean the connection surface on the body. If the strap is old, replace it (surface corrosion will increase its electrical resistance).

This strap provides continuity for the electrical ground between the starter motor and the battery, and if the electrical resistance is too high, it gives symptoms identical to low voltage at the battery terminal.

[Britwrench]

You may not have enough current to the solenoid; similar problem to 914 hot start problems. If you can verify that the ignition feed will not operate the solenoid (when you have the no-start) jump the solenoid supply to the main battery cable and see if the starter cranks. If so you probably need a relay kit.

[RoninLB]

May be various problems. IMHO Bosch sol. is a problem waiting to happen. Assuming all wiring is OK, the windings probably sagged due to heat. If I was going to drop starter I would upgrade to a better unit. Better now than latter.

[john walker's workshop]

you should try to get a rebuilt bosch starter instead of rebuilding your problem unit. a typical rebuild doesn't address much except brushes and a cleanup of the commutator. they may have reused your old solenoid too.

[cab83_750]

John,

Just for background, I went through checking the wiring, buying the $30.00 gizmo that helps with 'hot start', bought a high-torque starter, searched through the archives and I still had the problem.

Anyway, after countless hours and WEEKS debugging similar problem, these solved my problem forever:

1. Replace the ground strap from the chassis to the transmission.
2. Buy a high-torque starter.
3. As you may already know, heat is your main problem. So, in my own non-scientific mind, I used a gasket that I glued around the base of the starter PRIOR to installation. The idea behind this is to have (semi)heat insulation between the engine and the starter. I have analyzed both heat and electricity conductivity issues as I would like to recoup the high cost of the H/T starter.

So, to reduce heat conductivity, the gasket serves the purpose. I logged 30K+ miles on the new starter and no problems so far.

As for electricity conductivity, I think the bolts used to mount the starter would be more than enough to supply the appropriate gounding required. I did install an extra wire from the chassis directly to the starter (just in case).

DO NOT buy the $30.00 gizmo (this is a band-aid) and it does not work.

Your problem may be similar to mine (in a way) since the 2nd NEW starter solved my problem. My 1st replacement new starter worked for 3 weeks and then the clicking started all over again. I was going bananas because I had ruled out a brand new H/T as not the problem (so there I was checking voltage, rust spots, batteries, trying to replace wires with big gauge wires, etc). Well, I guess heat killed the 1st new starter. I got a little wiser with the 2nd one (that is why I installed the gasket).

Don't even try wasting your more time with debugging this problem unless you are able to work UNDER and around the engine when the engine is super-hot. Again, just install ground strap(s), brand new starter, and the gasket.

By the way, the best price for high-torque starter is from our sponsor! You can buy it anywhere you want but PP was the best. No B.S.! Really!





[This message has been edited by cab83_750 (edited 10-04-2001).]

[Zendalar]

If you just hear a click it might be couple copper plates in starter motor, if bought separately they will cost 6$ max. The click comes from the solenoid and this engages the electric motor, but the copper contactors must be in good shape (They burn out in time).

I am not speaking about Porsche starter but a Honda Accord -80 starter, that was supposed to be impossible to rebuild, or so the store said and told me to buy a new one for 300$. I wen't to local car-electronic shop that do the repairs for the starters and they just said: Ah, here, put these in and it will work.

So it did.

[Fishcop]

Thanks guys, I haven't got the starter back from the electrician yet, so I don't have his diagnosis.

Cab83_750, thanks for the detail, I'll try a gasket as you suggest, how did you go about making one, rubber, corl, or gasket paper?

I'll definitely replace that ground strap as well

Thanks guys


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John Forcier
69 911T

[cab83_750]

John,

I was lucky enough to find a Felpro exhaust gasket. It looks like you are not in U.S. so ignore the brand name if it is not familiar to you.

The item that I used felt more like a very 'cushy' paper that can be molded into any shape required. As it is cushy, I was able to create the desired thickness AND contour that I wanted. My first preference was paper as the thickness building would have been more rapid. However, the contour issue forced me to drop the paper route. The high-torque starter from Pelican has numerous contour!

Good luck!

Too bad you are not in U.S.; else, I could mail you my useless 'starter relay.'

[Early_S_Man]

John,

1. You don't need a heat insulator ... hundreds of thousands of 911s start fine without one! Heat transfer was an issue in 1968-69 with the 908 race cars at Le Mans, and it was cured with a Titanium heatshield ... but 911's on the street don't have the same problem!!!

2. There seems to be a 'conductivity' issue between your transaxle and its' ground return path ... you could remove the forward mount while supporting the transaxle and cleam the mounting area thoroughly, or install a #4 gauge ground wire directly to the lower starter mounting stud. Use a copper-based anti-seize compund on all nuts, bolts, and studs upon reassembly!


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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[Superman]

I'd agree that things like ground straps are a likely culprit here. The starter needs lots of electricity....electrical connections like to resist, rather than conduct, electricity at high temperatures....and when a starter cannot get (or pass) enough electricity, it will click instead of turn.

I have fixed (at least gotten them running properly) quite a few starters on non-Porsche cars by cleaning up all electrical connections, and by taking the nose off the solenoid and flipping over the little metal plate that needs to conduct electricity to the starter motor. The plate gets blackened from the high amperage it passes to the starter motor, but only on one side. I'll bet I've saved a thousand dollars doing this. FWIW.

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'83 SC

[Fishcop]

Electrician says that there is no problem with the starter, everything is within spec, and suggests a ground problem also.

I'm definitely going to start with a new ground strap and a good clean. It already has the relay trick done to it, so I'll try renewing the crappy relay just in case.

I'll let you know how I go. Thanks to you all once again.



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John Forcier
69 911T