3.6 Throttle Linkage Set-Up Question

[Lothar]

Todd,

While I am suspicious of 3.6 911's identity, as it may have been created for the purpose of responding to your post, I must agree with the opinion. You could find other things to worry about.

I know you have your issues with the individual that performed your transplant. Since your first post regarding the work on your car, you have posted other threads that express your discontent in front of the subscribers of this forum.

You might have rigged the throttle differently had you done the work yourself. However, given the fact that others have successfully used and continue to use the same arrangement , I think it has passed the test of time.

If you agreed to settle your differences privately, then you should abide by that agreement. I don't see the other party posting threads about your competence, be it thinly veiled or otherwise. If your post is without a hidden purpose, then you should be advised that an alternate motivation might be read into your post, given what has transpired.

[Eric Mckenna]

lothar,
I to am aware of the issues that Embs and another party have had.. but that is old news. I feel that Embs is trying to use the welth knowledge that can be found on this BBS. Several people have already posted a few better ways to hook the throttle up. Which is great. I know I would want to look at all the options out there and pick the best one. SO please do not READ anything into this post that is not in it, and turn this thread into a PISSING contest. that is for sure NOT what this thread is about.. He is simply once again trying to find better linkage options.
If this were your car I am sure you would want the same. I am not to trying to the UN of the 911 forum but please simply stop briging that old news back to the surface and let the man get some other options for his car.

Eric Mckenna
78SC

[Embs]

Originally posted by Lothar
Todd,
You might have rigged the throttle differently had you done the work yourself. However, given the fact that others have successfully used and continue to use the same arrangement , I think it has passed the test of time.

Lothar you are certainly entitled to your opinions, just as I am. I just want to do whats' best for my car and not get hammered in the process for posting things in the past that I would certainly like to forget. At the same time, I will always stand up for myself be it online or in person.

Considering your long explanation of someone else's situation, I didn't see any ideas for linkage which is what I am trying to solicit.

Thanks,

[Lothar]

I make no assumption regarding your post. I merely point out that some might interpret your post differently from what was intended.

I sincerely hope you find a solution that is to your liking and I hope you will post pics once you have made the modifications.

Best Regards,

[Kevin Stewart]

Embs I am gonna start my conversion in a few weeks so when i get to that ill let you know if you havent already found something that I can use, Also, I dont think your post is out of line, If there is anything else that you are gonna try and improve post it, thier are several of us doing conversions right now and we are all interested in improving our conversion, Kevin

[Embs]

Originally posted by Kevin Stewart
If there is anything else that you are gonna try and improve post it, thier are several of us doing conversions right now and we are all interested in improving our conversion, Kevin

Here is a short list of quick Items I can think of:

Unless your car is for track use only, headers are a complete waste of money, (especially on a 993 Varioram engine)

PMS is expensive but well worth it for many of your conversion parts (especially the wire harness). Unless your really into fabricating your own stuff. (I am checking into their throttle set up on Monday)

If you are doing a 993 engine you need two O2 sensors if your exhaust is a split system, some say one O2 sensor for OBDI.
Steve at rennsport can shed the light on the O2 Sensors for you.

Invest in earlier cooling tin or you will have huge air gaps in your engine bay. It looks like crap.

I know there is much more, but I am a little brain dead right now.

Best luck on the conversion. I hope to get my car going soon.

Thanks,

[3.6 911]

There is no reason to be suspicious of my identity:

If there are specific questions as to my intent please e-mail me and we can discuss it.
I was merely stating that I have the same set up on my car and it functions very well.
It does however feel that Embs is trying to bring up an old problem.

[ischmitz]

One more "worthwhile" improvement for the 3.6 conversion so many of us are doing:

On one of the conversion packages I have seen the vacuum port at the intake being plugged with duct tape…. While this might last for “...testing the engine in the car before shipping...” it won't last much longer. The effect is hunting idle. Ask how I know. And God forbid this mess gets sucked into the intake.

Ingo

[Eric Mckenna]

Originally posted by 3.6 911
There is no reason to be suspicious of my identity:

If there are specific questions as to my intent please e-mail me and we can discuss it.
I was merely stating that I have the same set up on my car and it functions very well.
It does however feel that Embs is trying to bring up an old problem.

I don't see it that way at all... I think it sounds like you wish he were, or that you want him to bring up an old problem. As you can see. There have been several good sugestions as to a potentially better throttle linkage set up. The ONLY person who seem to continue to try to dig up old issues and ill feeling is you, my good friend 3.6 911.
I would ask that if you do not have any suggestions on how to set up a better longer lasting throttle linkage that .. well you PM Embs yourself and talk to him and stop trying to turn this thread into a friggin arguement, of who is wrong & who is right.. please..
I like the thread because I plan on doing this swap myself and I like to hear the other options on how others have delt with the throttle linkage. So PLEASE stop trying to DING HOLE it up by starting a fight.


Eric Mckenna
78SC

[3.6 911]

Eric,
At some point in your life were you a cheerleader? It appears to me that you have been the one who has been waving your pom-poms concerning the post and saying that the current throttle assembly is unacceptable. (please see your first post regarding this subject)
If you would take the time and read my post, I only said that this method of connecting the throttle cable was adequate and worked very well. (I was giving my personal input and experience regarding your inexperienced opinion. As I recall you have not done this conversion yet and have no basis to make such assumptions?)
As to your reference to my trying to start a fight, that is completely not true. Once again I was giving my opinion regarding Todd’s first post on this subject.
If you continue to post as you have regarding my opinion I will continue to defend myself publicly.
Others have questioned my position privately and I have responded.
Along with others I would like to see what possibilities there are for a throttle linkage. Until someone offers a significantly better proven design I will stand by my original comment.

[Eric Mckenna]

Look, 3.6
I don't care what you have to say or think of me and my PoM-PoM's.. to be honest with you.. So what I wish you would do is Drop OFF! and allow this thread to be what it was intended for . which IS comming up with a better linkage than that which you have... sure it works, but IT IS NOT the best way to do .. looks like the most cost effective,, but not the best.. so if you would please stop posting old issues and sit down and think about it, you too may come up with a better way to set the throttle linkage up. wow what a thought.. try it you might surprise yourself.. and think of it three 3.6 man you might not only devise a better linkage but in doing so i can put my POM-POMs down and put them back into the closet with my other cheerleading items.. !SO please either contribute or Stop posting! on this thread... if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to defend!.. right?

Eric Mckenna
78SC

[Embs]

Eric has seen my car, we share the same mechanic.

I think the bottom line is that while cable looped around a post will work, it is certainly not very robust. Depending on driving habits, corrosion and other factors, the cable could fail much sooner than a normal linkage set-up that utilized rods with ball (female / male) ends, or some other configuration.

The other problem is that as my car exists now, WOT isn't possible
regardless of how the current set-up is adjusted. This has been verified by a Porsche Certified Master Tech. (woo hoo)

3.6 911 you can tout the design till the cows come home, but by all honest observations it is not very good, period. I started this post to see what other people have done, because I am of the mindset that there is always a better idea. If possible, I want to solicit these better ideas and incorporate them into my vehicle. That is what the BBS is for, sharing ideas.

Considering your wealth of knowledge on the 3.6 subject, where would a person find their O2 sensor lead on the wiring harness?

If only one sensor is needed on an OBDI engine, which header or exhaust gets the sensor on a split exhaust system (as I have)?

Please visit http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/1-a.html
and give Mr. Weiner a call, he has a lot of really good information to share on the subject. He is also quite pleasant.

Thanks for your continued positive input. Like John Walker, Tre Motorsports and many others, perhaps you can start to share your wealth of Porsche information with the BBS as many other shop owners do.

[ischmitz]

Back to the topic:

Has anyone tried to use a standard 964 or 993 throttle cable. Are there any modifications required to it? How does the PMS solution look like. Any pictures around?

Ingo

[CamB]

PMS ordinary stands for Pre Menstrual Syndrome.

You know, that time of the month where women tell you IT JUST DOES, DAMMIT, NOW LEAVE ME ALONE!

Thom is funny

Originally posted by Eric Mckenna
DAMN! Thom.. what gives? That was a bit out of Charactor for ya!
It seemed like a perfectly legitimate question to me, yet you SNAPPED at Embs question that wasn't even DIRECTED at you..
come on Thom.. man people come here to get answers to questions,, not Flippant remarks to thier questions..

I REALLY hope i simply misread your post and that you were JOKING with , then I seea bit of humor in it.. but if your were being serious... well.....I see nothing but a needless reply to a fellow P-car owners question.

Originally posted by Embs
Dude, are you SCCA_ITA who posted the PMS info that I quoted? Or am I missing something here?

[Eric Mckenna]

Originally posted by widebody911
IT JUST DOES, DAMMIT, NOW LEAVE ME ALONE!

HAHHAHA I get it now! sorry Thom,
I thought that was bit out of place for ya! HAHAHA thanks for clearing that up.. HAHAHAHA how did I miss that!

Cheers,
Eric Mckenna

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Bill,

Do you happen to have a close up pic of the throttle linkage attaching to the throttle body? Or a higher res version of this pic?

I'm trying to figure out what you did to attach the stock throttle linkage to the engine!

Thanks for the help!

[AllardK3]

Bringing up an old thread here.....

I have the bicycle style looped cable on my sc to 3.6 conversion. It works OK, but the throttle response at small angles is pretty poor and it takes a lot of travel to get to WOT. Has anyone who has upgraded to the Patrick Mororsports cable from this old style arrangement have any opinions on improved throttle response/linearity?

Trying to decide if the upgrade is worth the time and money.

Thanks!
Mike

[Mahler9th]

I think that one of the best ways to address small angle throttle response/pedal travel issues is the change the geometry. One of my friends (who built my car and builds my engines) suggested this t me years ago. In my case, the change was made on the lever on the transmission pivot. I lengthened it quite a bit.

My friend has done this mod to a few cars.

Very easy to do.

I don't think the conversion to a cable set up changes geometry by itself.

[ischmitz]

Using the stock 964 throttle cable makes the throttle response just what it was in the original car: perfect. In addition it's butter-smooth and prevents all the issues where it doesn't return properly with a linkage (idle switch not activated) It's a no-brainer IMHO.

[Mahler9th]

What "original car?"

Perhaps two different questions exist... how to change the geometry such that you have the ratio of pedal travel to throttle opening you want. This is what I mentioned above. In some cases, it is desirable to have a non-stock set up.

For example, for many years, my race car had a single large TB 3.8 liter racing engine. Non-ideal throttle response based on the cams and set up I had. Once I changed the geometry, I increased/optimized the part throttle range quite a bit.

Now I have a 3.6L short stroker with a smaller 964 stock TB. The changes I made before still provide benefit as I still want a decent range of pedal travel versus butterfly travel.

As for a cable-- sure this can address some desires and issues. I have considered changing my set up to a 964 cable. But this change, by itself will not address geometry.