Setting Front Ride Height After Suspension Refresh - What am I Doing Wrong?

[wrxnofx]

I am having a really difficult time setting "correct" front ride height on my '87 after redoing the front suspension bushings (everything else is identical, other than new ball joints and tie rods). Struts are same Boge with same Bilstein inserts (I left the struts on the car).

According to Bentley, the ride height is determined by measuring the distance between the center of the wheel and the center of the torsion bar adjustment cap (C = A-B):


The value of C for Euro ride height is 108mm.


Starting with where the car "originally" was at (which was the same number of 4 threads showing out of the top of the adjustment cap before I took everything apart):
Height to center of wheel (A): 310 mm



Height to center of torsion bar adjustment cap (B): 137 mm


C = 310-137 = 173 mm


The car is WAY too LOW, nothing close to where it was before taking everything apart. Either way, I know I have to turn the adjustment screw clockwise, and I do so a few turns (I'm working only on the driver's side at the moment).

New height to center of torsion bar adjustment cap (B): 147 mm


C = 310-147 = 163 mm


Turn a couple more turns clockwise.

New height to center of torsion bar adjustment cap (B): 156 mm


C = 310-156 = 154 mm


This calculation makes no sense based on my measurements. Just to get to Euro ride height by calculation (108mm) I've got to modify the height of B another 46 mm, or almost 2 inches?!?!? That makes ZERO sense, and there is nowhere close to enough adjustment screw left.

With the value of B at 154 mm, the height of the fender is at about 650 mm, or about 25.5 in.


Before I took everything apart, the original measured B value was 160 mm. I'm about to just set it to that and call it good, but I'd really like to understand that calculation. I'd also really like to understand why the number of adjustment threads is so different from what it was when I removed it, and whether there are now too many threads sticking out the end that are going to cause the adjustment screw to bend.

[Classic]

Your adjustment screw won't bend.

You can 'index' the screw. When you put it all together, and before you put the end cap on put some weight on the A arm, to set them about the right angle. Put the cap on and you should find you have a finer adjustment.

[Driven97]

You said you are working only on the driver's side. And I see a swaybar. If there's a difference in heights, that swaybar can affect things more than you think.

Maybe try "eyeballing" it so both sides look about right and even before you start measuring?

[Brando]

Originally Posted by Driven97

You said you are working only on the driver's side. And I see a swaybar. If there's a difference in heights, that swaybar can affect things more than you think.

Good point. Disconnect swaybar then set ride height?

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Brando

Good point. Disconnect swaybar then set ride height?

disconnect it at the steering rack cover plate. don't let it droop, suspend it with wire where it seems to move most freely. getting the a-arm side out is a project in its own right.

are you on a level surface? are you rolling the car to n fro some to settle things after an adjustment?

[Flieger]

What do you mean it's too low? It looks like you have almost 5cm of clearance from the tire to the fender.

[Reiver]

You can always jack it up and remove the adjusters from the T bars and re index them by one groove.
It really is a simple procedure.

[chrismorse]

I am going through the front end of my 74, upgrading a bit as I go and have been pondering the chassis height/corner weighting ritual soon to follow.

I rebuilt the suspension on an old Ferrari, using threaded body, aluminum shocks, stiffer springs,poly bushings and adjustable drop links on the bigger bars. I borrowed scales and put considerable effort into making a level platform, with decent roll on and roll off to get the stiction out of the suspension.

This seeming endless chasing of one's tail, side to side and front to back and all of the variables in between

What if we could just set one end, (of the chassis), at the desired height, then all we would have to do is to set the height and corner weight at the "in progress" end??????? With a final all 4 wheel corner weight fine tuning, bars disconnected, drivers weight in the seat and half a tank of fool.

If we start with a level platform, set the "other end" at its desired height, this has just got to simplify/shorten the usual chasing of ones tail, front to back, side to side and corner to corner.

I haven't done it yet with the P car, but I sympathize with the OP, looking to get it right.

If I ever get through moving and setting up my garage/shop, I am going to give this method a try - Hopefully, someone else has BTDT and can offer a bit of advice/help.

dazed and confused,
chris


SUPPOSITION: if the rear of the car were supported on blocks, at the "Euro Height", (wheels off the car), then the front could much more easily be set to both the desired ride height, and scales being present, much closer to equal front corner weight.

If we can slide a couple of Euro Ride Height Blocks under the back of the car, remove the wheels and tires, the only variables, (aside from fuel and driver weight influence - easily gotten around), are going to be front torsion bar adjustment.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by Flieger

What do you mean it's too low? It looks like you have almost 5cm of clearance from the tire to the fender.

You are correct. When I first lowered the car using the pre-suspension rebuild settings, the tire actually went up and into the wheel well.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by Reiver

You can always jack it up and remove the adjusters from the T bars and re index them by one groove.
It really is a simple procedure.

Yup, I tried this. I could only re-index the adjuster by one spline, and it was in the wrong direction (counterclockwise on the driver's side) which made the car even lower.

[wrxnofx]

I finally opted out of using the formula and just went with floor to fender opening height. I settled on 25 1/4". Still high, but the rear is very high yet. I plan to refresh the rear suspension next winter and lower the whole car at that point.

[Autoban]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

I finally opted out of using the formula and just went with floor to fender opening height. I settled on 25 1/4". Still high, but the rear is very high yet. I plan to refresh the rear suspension next winter and lower the whole car at that point.

When I adjusted the front of my car I also came to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the formula. I couldn't get to the 108 mm and the car would have looked like an SUV. I settled for 150 mm because it just looked right and I have no bump steer going over bumps.

Juergen

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

Yup, I tried this. I could only re-index the adjuster by one spline, and it was in the wrong direction (counterclockwise on the driver's side) which made the car even lower.

Did you do this with the front suspension in full droop on both sides? If not, that would explain why you could only go the wrong way.

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

I finally opted out of using the formula and just went with floor to fender opening height. I settled on 25 1/4". Still high, but the rear is very high yet. I plan to refresh the rear suspension next winter and lower the whole car at that point.

Ok, now why is the rear high if you haven't worked on it yet?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

I finally opted out of using the formula and just went with floor to fender opening height. I settled on 25 1/4". Still high, but the rear is very high yet. I plan to refresh the rear suspension next winter and lower the whole car at that point.

Originally Posted by Autoban

When I adjusted the front of my car I also came to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the formula. I couldn't get to the 108 mm and the car would have looked like an SUV. I settled for 150 mm because it just looked right and I have no bump steer going over bumps.

Juergen

There's nothing wrong with the formula. What you guys are learning is that these cars were set a lot higher from the factory than you think and that what most people think of as the correct height is in reality a couple inches lower than the original height. "Euro" height is probably the single biggest misconception out there regarding these cars.

You can lower the height if you want. You will get more bump steer, you will lower the roll center... etc.

Have a look at this thread:

Ride height - factory measurement method

JR

[Jase77]

Hey guys,

Just seen this thread and I have just started on the front suspension on my car. I have just finished on the rear and the figures that I took from the Bently Book were hugely different to what I measured on the car.
My car is at somekind of 'Euro' rideheight and after checking, rechecking, some head scratching, a lot of swearing, I decided to just reset the ride heights to the same figures I had before I started. I have driven the car a short distance to help settle the rear end and to make sure that nothing falls off and then re-measured the rear rideheights. Everything is within a few mm of my original figures, which is still massively different to the BB book, but the same as before.

I have no idea why this is the way it is but I would also be very interested to know if there is a reason for it.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Jase77

I have no idea why this is the way it is but I would also be very interested to know if there is a reason for it.

Read my post above yours. What you think is "Euro ride height" is not correct. At some point, your car was lowered from it's original height to a height well below what Porsche intended the height to be. When a 911 is adjusted to the correct height, it looks too tall for most people. By now, the vast majority of 911s have been lowered and people are used to what they look like in that condition. That, and the average owner is more concerned with looks than handling, so really low cars are the new "normal."

JR

[Jase77]

Originally Posted by javadog

Read my post above yours. What you think is "Euro ride height" is not correct. At some point, your car was lowered from it's original height to a height well below what Porsche intended the height to be. When a 911 is adjusted to the correct height, it looks too tall for most people. By now, the vast majority of 911s have been lowered and people are used to what they look like in that condition. That, and the average owner is more concerned with looks than handling, so really low cars are the new "normal."

JR

Fair point Javadog! The formula is good,just the figures stated in the Bentley Book are for a roller skate!

[universeman]

Check out this German print ad for an SC 911. Not 100% conclusive, but it does show a fairly tall profile relative to what you see here on PP these days. A quick visual check shows the rocker trim top, heading straight into the wheel center.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by Driven97

Did you do this with the front suspension in full droop on both sides? If not, that would explain why you could only go the wrong way.

No, I didn't, which would explain it. I put the caps and adjustment screws on AFTER connecting the ball joints to the struts.

Originally Posted by Driven97

Ok, now why is the rear high if you haven't worked on it yet?

I haven't touched the rear from when I bought it from the PO. Current height at the rear is 26 5/8" from ground to fender.

[javadog]

That rear height sounds normal, if you consider "normal" to be what Porsche set it at.

If that were my car, I would not leave the front end that low, with a rear that high. Pick whatever height you're going to pick, then adjust both ends.

JR