3.3 Turbo dyno results?!

[hilandscott]

I'm looking for some dyno records for preferably a 90's era 3.3 turbo engine (with the digital fuel map) both stock and with the following upgrades (or very similar):

K27 turbo
larger intercooler
1 bar spring
aftermarket exhaust (free flow, such as Euro headers, GHL)

I've read that these mods take the engine output to much higher levels, and I'm interested in how these affect low end torque and peak output.

Thanks -- I've searched the archives a few ways and have come up with nothing yet!

[rattlsnak]

Why, are you looking to buy one with a similiar setup??
There are two dynos 10 minutes from here where you could find out. But I would guess the HP would be at least 375+. They came with @ 325, so the exhaust would be good for @25, and rest of those things at least 25.

[TimT]

Those arent the upgrades you should really care about.......

If the car you are interested in has those upgrades, you should ask if the bottom end has been improved, ie cross drilled crank, shuffle pinning, and if the head studs have been time certed or otherwise improved ( wayne will reply with a thread about the differences between timecerting, case savers, or heli-coils.)

I helped a good friend of mine build a 3.0 turbo with a Haltech F-9A management system..... we saw 720 RWHP on a dyno

The turbo isnt a K-27
The intake is individual throttle bodies
There are 2 injectors per cylinder

You should know if the bottom end of a high HP engine is built right....

Its easy to bolt on a few things and say away we go

[juan ruiz]

TimT

I helped a good friend of mine build a 3.0 turbo with a Haltech F-9A management system..... we saw 720 RWHP on a dyno

Tim, are we Talking a 3.0 Porsche engine? If this the case can you list the necessary modifications to make this happen?

[TimT]

Tim, are we Talking a 3.0 Porsche engine? If this the case can you list the necessary modifications to make this happen?

yes it is a 3.0 Porsche engine.

As i mentioned on my ealrier post it has individual throttle bodies with 2 injectors per cylinder.

The turbo is special, and is fed from equal length 1.75 SS headers

A programmable boost controler is used

this engine runs on the primary injectors till about 1 bar...... after that the secondary injectors start to fire

we saw that HP at 1.4 bar boost....

The heads have been ported

Carillo rods

extra oil cooling etc.....


The point of earlier post was........... that even though you can bolt on alot of stuff to make more HP........ the most important thing is a good solid lower end......

[rattlsnak]

The "upgrades" he is talking about do not require any lower end modifications whatsoever. He is referring to a 3.3 C2T engine which came stock with everything except the spring and exhaust. Hardly a reason to "strengthen" the already bullet proof bottom end. In your case, I totally agree, Geez, 720 HP,. thats SWEET! Now theres a reason to strengthen the bottom end!!!

[dean]

http://www.c2turbo.com/

They have lots of dyno runs to look at

[juan ruiz]

Thanks.....

[beepbeep]

3.3L C2T engine has bottom end strong enough to withstand almost all kind of tuning you can throw at it short of 1.2+ boost and NOS.

3.3 engine with mods mentioned should indeed dyno @ approx. 375-380HP...

rattlsnak is very on spot on this one and he obviously knows his stuff...

[RarlyL8]

The numbers posted mirror those that I have seen.
Check out 911Turbo.com for more info.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by hilandscott
I'm looking for some dyno records for preferably a 90's era 3.3 turbo engine (with the digital fuel map)

Even the 1994 3.6 Turbo was still K-Jetronic/CIS i.e. no digital fuel map. The Turbo didn't go Motronic until the 993TT.
-Chris

[beepbeep]

Even the 1994 3.6 Turbo was still K-Jetronic/CIS i.e. no digital fuel map. The Turbo didn't go Motronic until the 993TT.

Can anyone explain why this, errrrr, rudimentary & power-robbing FI was kept for so long on turbocharged cars??? Probably beacuse it doesn't need pricey high-flow injectors and is able to squirt a lot of fuel due to it's "continious" nature??

Don't tell me it's more reliable, i drove >176kmiles turbocharged cars from 1985 with EFI that never misses a beat.

I'm really puzzled... not until 1994???

[dbltrbl]

ChrisB:

I dont know much about Porsche turbo engines or about their injection systems but all (atleast most) later CIS systems were Ke-jetronic types where counterpressure at airflowmeter was electrically adjusted according to lambda sensors information. Is it really true that porsche used "primitive" K without electronic on later cars? Its hard to believe.

Older types adjust fuelmixture according to counterpressure regulator, new types usually use solenoid type valve i quess.

kristian

[RarlyL8]

Yes, it is absolutely true that CIS was used on all 911 turbocharged engines until the 993TT. Even the rare 3.6 C2T had CIS.

If I were to guess, I'd say that the CIS system gave Porsche the power they needed (up to 400 hp) with out extremely costly re-engineering for a small production run. Not many C2Turbos were sold comared to the 930 run. They also may have had many 930 type engine systems in stock that would be instantly useless. Very costly.

[sammyg2]

CIS is simple, reliable, and it works.
On the turbo cars, the CIS didn't really hold them back much at all. They could just crank up the boost a little to make up for whatever the intake restrictions cost them.

I think the CIS is a little under rated, I doubt it causes as much lost HP as everyone thinks.

Plus, it gives the turbo guys bragging rights, they can almost say they are members of the SCWDP

[kristian85]

Originally posted by TimT

I helped a good friend of mine build a 3.0 turbo with a Haltech F-9A management system..... we saw 720 RWHP on a dyno

Yes, that sounds high--very high, actually. This is a number that even the world's finest Porsche tuners could barely aspire to, specially from a 3.0. Curious to know more details. Was it a $100K 935 motor?

The best German Porsche tuners, Gembella, Ruf, etc., struggle with getting that number from 996-based twin turbo motors, and they have far superior aptitude for making big power than aircooled 3.0's do. In fact, Ruf doesn't even do it.

[RickM]

That's a good question. Apparently there are big differences between engine platforms when turbocharging. A good friend is going into Stage 3 with Promotive (Mucho $$$) with his 993. He was told (and I've heard this before) that my 3.2 can be massaged to a significantly higher HP than the 3.6.

[David Bahr]

Sammyg2 is spot on. The reason CIS makes less horsepower is because 1) the throttle plate restricts airflow; and 2) it required mild cams. But with a turbo, you just crank a little more boost to make up for the flow loss.

Interestingly, the turbo cams are even milder than the SC cams, in an attempt to shift power in the turbo from high RPM (which is normally on-boost anyway) to low RPM (where boost may not have kicked in yet) in order to reduce the difference between on- and off-boost behavior.

[pete98m3]

"Yes, that sounds high--very high, actually. This is a number that even the world's finest Porsche tuners could barely aspire to, specially from a 3.0. Curious to know more details. Was it a $100K 935 motor?

The best German Porsche tuners, Gembella, Ruf, etc., struggle with getting that number from 996-based twin turbo motors, and they have far superior aptitude for making big power than aircooled 3.0's do. In fact, Ruf doesn't even do it."


depends what fuel your talking about... its pretty easy to make big pwoer when you start using more and more exotic fuels, but doing that on pump gas is whats tricky.

[juan ruiz]

RickM

He was told (and I've heard this before) that my 3.2 can be massaged to a significantly higher HP than the 3.6.

This is no secret It Appears that MUST of 930 owners refuse to admit this for what ever reason ........

Same goes for the 3.6 fellows,hard to belive that after spending $12,000 to $ 15,000 + you still have 300hp,but to each their own.

And this 3.0 with this massive hp ,Humm ........got thinking it may be possible but Im having a difficult time with this one.