Help me choose the right year for my project

[cowtown]

Hi guys,

As some of you might know, I kind of fell into ownership of a 1977 3.0 Turbo (930) engine a few months back. It's from a 6K mile wreck (!) and sat for over 20 years until I got it. I have been going through it, replacing seals, gaskets, bearings, and updating to Carrera tensioners and steel head studs.

Meanwhile, I have gone from "what in the world will I do with this thing" to "I REALLY WANT a light, no-frills street/DE (80%/20%) car."

I'm thinking of a coupe, 915 5-speed, around 2200 pounds, and the engine will run its stock 250HP or so. Depending on how the conversion works out, I may be tempted to sell my '88 and keep this car forever instead.

I've been poring over Frere's book and I think I have settled on a '76 for the following reasons (listed from general to nitty-gritty).

Please comment on any of these or set me straight where I'm off, especially regarding benefits of other years. Thanks!

I'm in California and must meet smog - UNLESS it's 30 years old or older. A '76 would need to be smogged at sale, but would be 30 years old by 2005, when the next check would be required. Is this too big an assumption, and does anyone know if this law's going to change? (It's not that I don't want to have a clean-running car, I just don't want to deal with the engine-swap bureaucrats).

I'm also really afraid of rust (hence 76 and not the lighter 73), since body repairs are out of my league. Frere states '76 was the first fully-galvanized body. Is this correct?

'76 was the first year with the 8:31 taller and beefier R/P. Any exceptions to this?

What kind of rear flares does a '76 have? What size tires and wheels could I run? What about brakes?

'76 would have CIS and minimize fuel system work when converting - right?

'76 was first year of magnetic tach and speedo - I'm assuming this is an easier conversion than mechanical...?

What's a realistic weight goal if I go to light bumpers and tail (intercooler requires it) but keep all glass and other body work stock?

Sorry for the length. It's a lot of fun to research and dream about this stuff! Any comments greatly appreciated.

[Moses]

I'd go with an early car to get lighter and avoid the infinite smog hassles. If not, maybe wedge that into a 914. (Probably can't be done-too tall.)

[tmctguer]

double check the california smog law. i could be wrong, but i don't believe there is a rolling 30 year exemption as you indicate. i understood the law to read that only pre-73 cars are exempt from smog laws.

[widebody911]

I think you're better off with a '74. It's closer to the smog exemption date, and there's no guarantee that the smog window will keep rolling. Back in when it rolled up to 73, the window was supposed to keep rolling each year thereafter. It didn't. Same thing back when '65 was the magic year. Never understimate the political influence of the smog industry.

You're in NorCal, so rust isn't a big factor as long as you take care of the car. Look at the number of rust-free pre-74's running around.

A '76 would have the pre-sc baby flares. You'll probably want to 'fix' this.

Did the Turbo Carrera (from which your motor came) have the dual fuel pump setup, or just a single?

With FG bumpers and hood, but everything else stock, I'm guessing you'll come in ~2500.

(sorry, I meant 2500, not 2700)

[Tim Walsh]

I like the galvanized '76 but you would loose some preformance with it, BUT if you're in SoCal I'll bet you can find a nice early 911 roller fairly cheap.


edit: BAH widebody you beat me to the punch.

[Superman]

No doubt some of you know more about the galvanizing schedule than I, but....

It has been my understanding that Porsche began dipping 911 shells in the middle of a production year. I thought the calendar year was no earlier than 1976. The 1977 models would have been produced at that time. So, I would expect that at least some, if not most or all, 1976 models would NOT be dipped.

Again, some of you have forgotten more about this than I'll ever know, but this has been my understanding. That the '78 models are dipped, and at least some '77 models are dipped, but that dipped pre-77 models are either rare or nonexistent.

Untrue?

[JTO]

cowtown,

My 1975 911S full of fuel and full of me (at about 220#) weighs 2650 pounds according to the certified scale at my employer. Pretty darn light.

I love the way the older long nose cars look. I think that you would have an easier time putting the 930 motor in a car that it was designed to be in: and 1974 through 1977 911.

Regarding rust and galvanizing: My 1975 is partially galvanized. It has been in Medford all of its life and always babied and stored indoors. It had minor rust develop on the rockers panels, inside the door jam/front fender panel (very minor), and rust under the battery. All have been taken care of but I ofter wish my car was a '76 or '77 just so I can have the galvanized security. My attitude is that the non-galvanized cars will always be prone to rust and that is a pain over the long-haul.

My opinion.

Troy

[gregk1]

I have herd that the 76 model was dipped only to Just above the top's of the doors and the 77 was dipped all the way, I have no rust problem with my 76

[cowtown]

Wow, great responses so far, thanks.

Thom (by the way, I met you briefly at the Silver Star swapmeet), my 930 engine is designed for 2 fuel pumps, so I might add one. However, John Walker has said to me in email that he runs only one with no problems on a conversion he did.

More questions based on answers I've gotten so far:

-- I originally wanted an early car with the longer hood, but my understanding is that there were no CIS models before '74...is this true? If I could get a CIS car with the older body style I think my decision would be made...but I'm trying to keep the conversion as simple as possible so CIS is really a must.

-- If I do go '74, is the 7:31 R/P going to be too weak and give me problems?

Colin

[rstoll]

Cowtown translates to Ft. Worth for me. How did you get to the coast???

[JTO]

cowtown,

Some '73 came with CIS. That is the year it was introduced.

Troy

[andymin]

As I understand it the cars were not dipped but rather the individual panels were galvanised. I think Paul Frere covers this in his book. I don't have the book to hand but something like: they started experimenting with galvanised panels such as the floor pan as early as 71 and by 76 all the panels were galvanised.

My 77 was fully galvanised, It was ponted out to me as I stripped the car and I tried to be careful to not go throught he black (cathodic?) coating or the underlying galvanising.

Hope this helps and if anyone else has a view on this I woould be interested.

regards


Andrew

My Carrera 3.0

wasn't this supposed to be for sale? Oh yeah, must have forgot

;-)

[Wayne 962]

I believe that the rolling exemption has been repealed because CA didn't meet it's targets (SUV owners)...

-Wayne

[juanbenae]

wayne, when you say repealed, do you mean it will remain frozen at the 73 model years as is now and they may never revisit it? i have spoken to DMV, other state smog people, and wrenches and nobody has any soild info on where we stand, where we are headed, or who to consult for answers regarding the cut off for smog exemption. no info on if it will change, what the criteria may be, or anything, sounds like just another case of the man keeping me down,, with my 78.

so to stay on topic,, 73= no smog, answer= 73

[makaio]

If you want the least amount of hassles, 73 or earlier is the only way to go in this state. Unless you want to register it as a Historic Vehicle. But then you are only suppose to drive it to and from shows, parades, and other club functions.

This is what I'm doing to my SC in January when it qulifies.

[cowtown]

Well, according to Department of Consumer Affairs
Bureau of Automotive Repair:

Q: When will my post-1974 model year vehicle become exempt from Smog Check?

A: 1974 and subsequent model year vehicles will be exempt from Smog Check when they turn 30 years old. Under current law, a 1974 model year vehicle will be exempt in 2003, a 1975 in 2004, etc.

Source:
http://165.235.17.9/StdPage.asp?Body=/GenInfo/OtherInfo/Frequently_Asked_Questions_Part_1.htm&LB=NO

But, I'm not going to trust this one source which may or may not be up to date. Can anyone give a difinitive answer on this?

Colin