Creating a retro porsche- different route

[twin plugged targa]

Just a thought but,
Jack Olsen and many others have taken the route to creating beautiful and powerful retro porsche 911's from older body style cars.
How easy, if possible, would it be to take a stock 964 with all of it's suspension/performance/comfort modifications ,over the older cars, and take the front hood, rear tail bumpers and wheels of an older car to create the same/similar beast!.

Would this not be an easier /cheaper and higher performance route than the other?.

granted the car may be heavier, but it would be rust free, good a/c, better suspension and electrics, ABS, etc. and the car could still be stripped out to be slightly lighter.
Any comments?....
rgds Ben

[Clark Griswald]

Not sure about the 964+. But for the Carrera it is easy.

The weight difference is pretty easy to account for - bumpers, power windows, larger wheels and tires, ac, etc.

In fact most of the early car updates end up putting some of that weight back in - wheels and tires, brake upgrades, later transmission...

It is easier and cheaper to pull those items out of the later car than it is to drop the new engine in the old car. And the results would weigh about the same. And be galvanized.

[twin plugged targa]

The 964 is the one which interests me as it has more upgrades than the 3.2.
It has already has the 3.6 engine, ABS, airbags, power steering, hydr. clutch, coilover spring suspension? and of course good A/C!.
Makes sense to me!
Any drawbacks? estimates to retro-fy?
thanks, Ben

[Jack Olsen]

It's not that uncommon a thing to do. Jens Wendorff did it on this board (I think from a Carrera) and it looks great. You get galvanized steel, brake, suspension and power upgrades, and you even get to avoid having to repair or replace the cardboard map pockets.

On the other hand, the bodywork and paint isn't cheap, and you get a slightly heavier (but safer) car. You just have to decide what point you're going to want to end up at, and if there's a single model that's closest to it. In my case, my brakes (930), suspension (21mm/30mm torsion bars, 22mm swaybars, 74 aluminum trailing arms), engine (964) and transaxle (early 911) simply couldn't be found on a single newer car. I would still have had to replace it all to get the version of 911 that I wanted.

But I've seen it done, and it looks great to loose the clunky bumpers and get something closer to the RS look. I haven't seen it done to a 964, but I don't see what would be so difficult about it.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 09-05-2001).]

[rscupper]

I don't get it - the best part of doing a retro project would be LOSING the ABS, airbags, & power steering systems. It's more interesting to learn braking limits, safer to use belts properly, and great to FEEL steering response! The changed power-to-weight ratio would be the big, fun plus. I'm guessing you might also need to consider suspension work to compensate for the change in balance and weight - for safety & ride quality (?).

[Clark Griswald]

Sounds like what you want is the Styling of the early car. Not the lightweight car / big motor performance.

I think you can drop the early hood and bumper on fairly easily, and just use the RS style straps to hold it down.

[Pillow]

"the best part of doing a retro project would be LOSING the ABS, airbags, & power steering systems."

AMEN!!! Just more junk to break or get in the way of a pure driving experience.

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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[nhromyak]

Also, if your in CA, with a pre-73 chassis there is NO SMOG-CHECK!!!

If you get a 964, you will still have to go to the smog police every two years.

Have FUN!

------------------
Nick Hromyak
'85 Carrera 7 & 9 Fuchs
Havin' Fun in Sacramento

[twin plugged targa]

I would be very interested in the article!.
I agree that the older cars have a more 'in touch' feel. Part of the reason for me buying an older 911 was to 'tame the beast!'.
But the temptation of more power linked with a better transmission and suspension and a more modern system which was designed by Porsche as a complete package is tempting.
I could easily say that I could do without the ABS and the airbags before a life threatening accident!.
It seems that everyone is unified in a desire for the retro styling but want more power!.
Add drivability and safety to this and I beleive you might have a successful package!.
Many of us have probabley wondered 'what if Stuttgart marketed a retro Porsche'. I would think that they would put a modern guts into it much the same as VW did with the new Beetle!.
As I understand it the 964 suspension is superior to the old torsion bars?
Another bonus!.
The Fuchs offset may be a problem, but I thing there are enough other wheels out there to chose from to fit the bill.
rgds Ben

[CamB]

I have wondered how much fun it would be to make a 74RSR replica out of a 930.

Hey, at least you get power to match the looks

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S (in bits)
1969 911T

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks James, have sent my email address and look forward to reading the article,
rgds Ben

[Jack Olsen]

Jadams, I'd love to get a copy of the article, too.

jackolsen@mediaone.net

[poorb0yw]

Just in case you are still having memory block. Its Excellence #88, October 1999 issue and starts on page 79.

[Jens Wendorff]

Go for it if you want!

I can follow your expectations pretty well. Although my intention was only to get a rust free chassis and some more daily drivability (e.g. in comparison to a '72 "S"), I would hate nowadays to miss the better seats, power windows, blabla.

But I think its only interesting (moneywhise) if you have access to all the needed parts from an older car. Otherwhise it will get damned expensive.

Jens
'76 2.7 with '73 body conversion



BTW: the 2.7 is still leaking a little, but pulls REALLY like a rubber band!

[twin plugged targa]

The excellence article is interesting but unfortunatly tells more of the RSR than the replica!.
It would have been nice maybe to have a breakdown of costs and an idea of logistcally how difficult and expensive certain aspect were.
Trying to make the car identical will obviously cost an arm and a leg. The flared fenders and custom fuchs are something I could live without.
The hood, fenders and valances of the RS are the visual delights and the items that would interest me personally.
I would be looking at a more of a hybrid type car (like J.Olsen's with the C2 tail) and maybe Fiske or BBS LM wheels!.
Maybe someone good with graphics could work on this?. I will have a go this weekend.
Are the retro fenders and hoods available in steel or only in fibreglass?.
Hang, on a minute, I thought I was getting out of owning a Porsche?
The bug bites hard!!!




[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 09-06-2001).]

[MBlake]

CamB,

I don't think you would get a 74 RSR replica if your starting point was a 930. You would get a 934 RSR!

This beast was featured in the latest (Sept 2001) 911 & Porsche World. A turn-key race with 485 bhp, and the styling of 3.0 RSR. In fact it seems it was a RSR before the addition of a turbocharger from the CanAm 917/30's!

Looks like fun to me!

------------------
Marcus

'73 S Targa

[Early_S_Man]

Just a comment about ABS annd the 48 electric motors in a 964 ... that doesn't make for a more reliable vehicle or daily driver!!!

It just means quite a few MORE KILOBUCKS$$$$ in repairs of electric CONTRIVANCES over say, a ten-year ownership period!!!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[twin plugged targa]

Oh thanks Warren! trust you to burst my bubble!
It seemed a good idea for all of a couple of days or so. Enough for me to have happy dreams for one night!.
Well, if the 964 fans are half as reliable as the fans in a 3.2 Carrera you can forget it!.
I have had 3 fans break down in 2 years. Fresh air, A/C evaporateor and heater!.
So much for German electrics.
Never had any problems with Lucas fans!
Ahhhhhgh!!!

[CamB]

Originally posted by MBlake:
CamB,

I don't think you would get a 74 RSR replica if your starting point was a 930. You would get a 934 RSR!

I know what you mean, but I would (dreams are free) choose the 74RSR bumper and IROC spoiler (would the intercooler fit - probably not!), rather than the 934 bumpers. Now you have me thinking though... So it would look like a 74RSR but be more mechanically similar (I wish!) to a 934. On reflection, I have no idea of EXACTLY what the 934 looks like - is it the same?

This beast was featured in the latest (Sept 2001) 911 & Porsche World. A turn-key race with 485 bhp, and the styling of 3.0 RSR. In fact it seems it was a RSR before the addition of a turbocharger from the CanAm 917/30's!

We don't have the September issue yet :-( All the magazines (ie 911 & Porsche World and Excellence) generally get seafreighted so we are a month or two behind...

Cam

[curtisaa]

I am in the process of retro'ing a '88 Carrera into a 73RS look with a 3.6 motor. Body work in fairly easy(but $$$) and the hard part is the 3.6 motronic conversion. DO NOT EVEN START this project until you can speak to Steve timmons( www.instant-g.com). The is the ONLY person that seriously knows how to do this transformation correctly....ASK, Jack Olsen if this is correct ??? GOOD LUCK....